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I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

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#41
kraigo said:
I disagree that you get an appreciably higher level of reliability with boutique. OK, out of the box you probably do, but I tend to take a cheap instrument and tweak it - tighten down the bolts, redo the soldering, adjust the action, etc. In the end I know the instrument very well. I probably wouldn't have to do much of that with a Sadowsky. Certainly not the tightening and possibly not much adjusting the action.

My latest project bass has been a real learning experience - badly cut nut, a shim where it didn't need one, truss rod not tightened at all out of the box, action a total mess and at this point the D and G strings are practically inaudible compared to the B, E and A when you're in an ensemble. But I honestly believe that I will have a bass that I can confidently take to gigs when I'm done. In fact, if I had to choose between a cheap bass that I've lived with for a while and a brand new boutique bass that I haven't spent much time with to take to a high profile gig, the cheap bass would win.

All that said, this is not a slam on Sadowsky or Lull or Alleva Coppolo or those fine basses that Munji posted. Maintenance is part of the whole process in my life. I'm more confident doing it to cheap basses because, well, it's a cheap bass. On the one hand I wouldn't have popped off the neck and the nut and sanded the fretless fingerboard on a boutique bass - I'd have brought it in to a reputable shop and had it done properly. On the other hand I wouldn't have had to. But I enjoy the tweaking process - making a less expensive instrument as nice as I can. I wouldn't trade my Tokai P-Bass for any boutique bass sight unseen.

KO
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I think your response kind of proves my point... I don't have to worry as much about tweaking and maintenance w. my Sadowsky... why? Because it's reliable. The fact that you have to go tweaking and messing around with cheaper basses is proof that they're not as reliable. Perhaps you can tweak them to the extent that they are reliable, but personally, I'd rather pay extra for a well made product, than buy a cheap one that I'd have to put a bunch of physical effort and energy into hopes of bringing up to the level I require. That's just me, though.
 
#42
JoZac21 said:
I think your response kind of proves my point... I don't have to worry as much about tweaking and maintenance w. my Sadowsky... why? Because it's reliable. The fact that you have to go tweaking and messing around with cheaper basses is proof that they're not as reliable. Perhaps you can tweak them to the extent that they are reliable, but personally, I'd rather pay extra for a well made product, than buy a cheap one that I'd have to put a bunch of physical effort and energy into hopes of bringing up to the level I require. That's just me, though.
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lol
 
#43
I have been playing for almost 30 years, owned USA Laklands, Pedullas, Peavey Cirrus, USA G&L's ,at one time or the other would never play a bass that wasn't 1500 dollars or more, but I can't get over the joy I am experiencing of playing a little Squier VM Precison I found at a pawn shop for 120 dollars. :)
 
#44
The truth is that most bassists who have played for a while have a combination of both. I have all expensive stuff right now, although no "boutique" basses. Just really expensive production basses, Kubicki, Steinberger, Kramer, Fender and of course the once cheapo now expensive Danelectros.

For day to day gigging I will only bring certain basses out of the house, because I fear for their lives. That is one reason I'm going to get a Bru Brute. I need a workhorse bass that won't make me cry when the guy standing in front of the stage whips his beer in the air as he dances up a frenzy.

However, the differences between my Danelectros and my Jerry Jones are night and day, included that the Jones just feels better overall in my hands, from every direction. Maybe the best comparison I ever had was the Hartke XK-4 and XK-5 I owned compared to my Hartke XL-4. The differences were not life shattering, but you could feel and play the differences.

I agree with the OP in that many of the boutique builders use the same components and therefore, by and large, they all sound similar. It is a correct and valid point. But if I'm gonna go for say a spalted maple Kubicki or Bru, its for the hand craftsmanship and the really kool wood work. Will the Bru and the Kubicki sound that much different? No.

I have always set a limit on how much I'll pay for a bass. Right now I'm looking at no more then $2K. When I get my Brute I'm probably going to upgrade the nut, change the strings and I might change out the pick-ups. For a bass that will street around $600 and about $200-$250 in upgrades, the Brute at even $850 is superior. And that is not an expensive bass.

But then again, the Brute with Barts will not sound like the regular Bru with Barts.
 
#45
JoZac21 said:
I think your response kind of proves my point... I don't have to worry as much about tweaking and maintenance w. my Sadowsky... why? Because it's reliable. The fact that you have to go tweaking and messing around with cheaper basses is proof that they're not as reliable. Perhaps you can tweak them to the extent that they are reliable, but personally, I'd rather pay extra for a well made product, than buy a cheap one that I'd have to put a bunch of physical effort and energy into hopes of bringing up to the level I require. That's just me, though.
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Touché. My point is that I can bring a cheap level up to a level of reliability that they don't fail in performance. I've maintained that out-of-box experience goes to the boutique consistently in this discussion.

KO
 
#48
ModulusQ5-122 said:
I believe it is about looks also wether some people want to admit it or not, i will. Look at my avatar. Can u find a squier that looks like that??
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Another thing people have to admit, is the fact that if you are a good bassist, you will somehow try to level the gear with the musical knowledge/experience, some people fall on this. And there is a certain ego that says: "I need to show off with an impressive bass"
 
#53
FunkyMan said:
Another thing people have to admit, is the fact that if you are a good bassist, you will somehow try to level the gear with the musical knowledge/experience, some people fall on this. And there is a certain ego that says: "I need to show off with an impressive bass"
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In the world of psychology there is a theory called cognitive dissonance... this theory states (please take it easy on me as this is a VERY simplified explination) that a person will match perceptions to a previously established belief, and even change a previously established belief to match a proven perception. What this ultimately means to this conversation is that if you believe the "expensive" bass is a waste of money, or not worth the money, your brain won't allow for you to believe that there truly is anything different and/or better about the boutique Fodera, Fbass, Ken Smith, etc. Musicians make up tons of excuses why they love or hate particular brands of gear due to their musical tastes and bassist idolatry. What bass you play is as much about your style and values towards the people playing them as it is the actual sound. It's cool, but don't expect to change the perspective of an individual who is diggin' in their heels due to a cognitive presupposition that has nothing truly to do with audio differences and playability.
 
#54
I've read this far & can't quite remember what the OP was all about - though I do recall enjoying Dan Atkinson's post...

Anyway... When I walk into a music store (or cruise the net) the first thing that interests me is what the instrument looks like - aesthetics are important to me (I also like food that tastes good)... After that, playability & sound have to be there... The cost is something I don't have much control over...

If it's expensive & I can afford it - why not buy it? If it's inexpensive - all the better... Unfortunately for my bank account, I usually like expensive stuff...

It's funny how many people have an issue with other people's gear
 
#55
one thing is true, with a bad sound guy (or even with a decent sound guy) playing in a band on a real gig and not in your bedroom; does not matter if you have a 100$ craigslist special or a Fodera,it can and usually is all just mud !! I think that a meat and potatoes bass sound can be achieved by a most basses costing around 500$, much past that and you are paying for aesthetics and extras that you will not hear on stage. Same with the audiophile rigs most people have, All you need is a good DI and a monitor that will give you enough sound to hear yourself, people who think they are going to hear that extra money they spent on their rig above a certain point are just kidding themselves, But Hey......this is America, buy what you want when you want. But don't ever let someone tell you "you need more" when what you have is working just fine.
 
#56
spade2you said:
Call it luck, but I still have my 1st bass and I'm very happy and content with it to this day. Had a collector not offered me a bunch of $ for my 2nd bass, I might have it as well. I may not have my 1st guitar, which I sold due to horrible frets and and fingerboard, but I still have my 1st real guitar.
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You may still have your first bass, but your sig block also shows you have a CB bass. I assume the Bordwell wasn't your first bass, so, like I've been saying, there's nothing wrong with wanting nicer things in life when you're at an appropriate level.

My first bass was a Cort. I simply outgrew it. Then I had a Stringray. Again, I grew tired of it and wanted to try and experience new things.
 
#57
Fascinating topic. These "rules" drive across the entire spectrum of music, whether you play brass, strings, woodwinds, or percussion.

I played clarinet in orchestras and bands for 30+ years. As a child, my first was a cheepo plastic (composite) Bundy clarinet, that carried me through private lessons well into middle school. The next was another composite, since the first literally broke in half.

It was well after high school that I invested in a vintage (60's model) Buffet clarinet, the "world standard" in clarinets. Oh yes, the aged grenadilla wood, the low profile keys, the silver plating, the forked octave key....wow.

Did I become a virtuoso as a result? NO. Did the quality of my playing improve? YES - from an intonation and "quality of sound" perspective. NO instrument makes a player, much as no basketball shoe makes the basketball player. Most musicians as a matter of skill level and income are able to enjoy a "better" instrument - but it does not improve their skills. PRACTICE improves skills.

And now I am learning the bass - wish I would have learned sooner!!

Chris
 
#58
I think it's funny how some folks seem to obsess on how much their gear costs. It's two extremes ... either 'it's cheap so it must not be that good." OR "It's too expensive and not really worth the cost except for snob appeal".
Can we not at least agree that cost is irrelevant in assessing whether a particular instrument has worth to an individual.If I say that I enjoy my $300 Squier more than a $3000 Sadowsky (or vice-versa), who are you to tell me I'm wrong? Any particular instrument is worth whatever it cost to the individual who is playing and enjoying it.
 
#59
The op is so wrong on so many levels it's sad.
Do some research.
Start here, take the factory tour, and see how this goes down from tree to bass:
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Btw, I own squiers as well as nicer instruments.
Sorry you can't tell a difference. Maybe that's a good thing for you, though. It would have certainly helped my wallet out.
This argument is just too old.
 
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