I think I want a Rick...

[LowNotes1]

I've owned two Rics. Bought a used 4001 in the mid-70's, and a new 4001 in 1978. Sold them both, but not because they were bad instruments. In fact, I thought they were beautifully made, but the sound just wasn't right for the bands I was in at the time.

The Rics are great for playing with a pick, and if you prefer a more trebly tone, but I didn't use a pick much, and I always thought the Ric's low-end was "boomy" - it moved air but without enough punch and definition to the notes compared to a Precision or a Jazz, which is what I switched to. I often had trouble hearing myself on stage with the Ric, but with a P, I heard every note - just seemed to stand out in the mix better.

On the positive side, I loved the look of the Rics, the thin neck, and the lighter weight. I got my first Ric because I was playing a Gibson Ripper at the time, which was so heavy I felt like a ship at anchor when I played it standing up.

 

[Illinimax]

What inconsistency in the QC? Rumors. All rumors. Ever since Mr. JH has incorporated CNC into his manufacturing process, the QC has been the best it ever has been, and only gets better. Go check them out further at the factory website and forum or the enthusiast's forum rickresource.com .

About getting the action where a person wants it, these basses are set up completely different from a Fender style bolt on neck. The neck should be adjusted absolutely straight, no relief. Also, since every person has a different playing style, a bit of nut slot adjustment may be necessary. These two items will do more than anything else to bring the action down.

Finally, Joey's bass notes has step-by-step to get the most out of a Rick. Until a person takes a Rick bass and does everything he says, or takes it to a real luthier that actually knows and appreciates Ricks and will set them up properly, not just says he does then pulls out the Fender playbook to work on it, it will not be the best.

I set up a friend's 4003. He took it to a music store to do string shopping, and the clerk who played it said it was the best set up bass of any make or model, with the best lowest action, he had ever played. It kind of embarrassed me, because their luthier is a a top-notch guy who is the only guy that does my work when something happens to one of my instruments that gets over my head, or I don't have the proper tools for, like refretting.

A Rick when set up properly as described above is crucial. Getting the neck straight with minimal relief really helps brings out the classic tone.

 

[cassius987]

Who are these "fanboys" people keep talking about? Does dispelling Ric myths make one a "fanboy"?

Well I do think some people try way too hard to influence public opinion about Rics (for good or ill), but I also think the whole fanboy-hater-etc. situation has arisen from a pretty complex milieu of company culture, price bubbles during years of low supply, misinformed consumers, and overzealous apologists. Kind of a Hatfield-McCoy thing where the feud's origin has been forgotten and people just know they should be feuding.

When people have real problems and others come back claiming the problems are just "myths" I think that really pisses some folks off, and I get that. There are indeed QC issues that happen with Rics, like with anything, and if you like Rics I think the best thing you can to do to help is point the player in the direction of RIC customer service or give them sound advice, but don't blame the customer for being on the short end of the stick from time to time.

I will correct people on technical issues any day of the week, but the more subjective stuff tends to just lead to verbal brawls that are no fun and don't help anyone out. Even when I have some data or citation to back a point up, like on pricing, I have gotten nothing but snarky remarks from certain people. This is TalkBass after all and you shouldn't expect that much, no one here is necessarily going to be held responsible for not acting like a decent human being.

 

[willsellout]

I respectfully challenge you to name them, using new and well cared for and well set up instruments as references, and not the abused instruments from improper setup and maintenance.

Ric's problems stem (mostly) from their bridges and from their finishes, by and large. If they could take care of the tail lift, the bubbling on their cheap a$$ chrome jobs on their parts and if they could take a look at their finishing issues (soft finishes, inconsistent color, finish bleeds, thin finishes), they'd have far fewer problems. This isn't an abuse issue this is a lack of attention to detail issue.

Besides that, it would be nice to see them come up with a new bridge design. It would be nice to see them change their gigantic fricking routes, and it would be nice to see them shield their instruments.

As a side note, Ric's are some of the sloppiest routed basses I've ever seen. MY Ric is simply the worst. It's horrible and amateurish. Does it work, though? Yes. This seems to be JH's MO. Good enough, shouldn't be your goal.

To leave on a positive note, I generally find the playability of Ric's out of the box to be one of the better qualities.

 

[audiomitch]

When people have real problems and others come back claiming the problems are just "myths" I think that really pisses some folks off, and I get that. There are indeed QC issues that happen with Rics, like with anything, and if you like Rics I think the best thing you can to do to help is point the player in the direction of RIC customer service or give them sound advice, but don't blame the customer for being on the short end of the stick from time to time.

Most of the people I see here are trying to set the record straight. The last confab I got sucked in to ended with "ALL new Rics have QC issues", and "despite what Ric and knowledgeable techs say, there HAS to be some relief in the neck" or "You may think it has no relief but nothing is truly flat". That was a tedious exercise in semantics, my fault for arguing with them when they were obviously insincere.

Nobody has claimed Rics are perfect, or at least I haven't seen it. But once the haters start the "fanboy" accusations, the discussion really accelerates downhill from there. I realize there are a lot of people right on the edge of trolling around here, and a reaction is what their looking for. But I hate to see new users scared away from any instrument because of half truths, myths, and outright lies. There's a few big name manufacturers that I don't like, but I don't go out of my way to sway anybody away from them. Weird.

 

[socknroll1]

I just want to chime in about Rickenbacker as a company. Someone said they "continue to flourish". I wouldn't say that. Look at how few stores carry their instruments. They are hard to find and some colors/configurations are always backordered. They have somewhat of an old-world manufacturing process (read: slow) and that is a big turn off for many music retailers. It also limits how big of a company they can ever become, by their own choice. 2 interesting stories from the music retailer where I work:

Guy A orders a sunburst 360, Guy B orders one the next day. Guy B's comes a week later. Guy A's comes 9 months later.

Store places a big PO. The instruments come in 11 months later and the paint is chipping off. We call, they will not take them back. They say once they hit our warehouse, they are ours, no protection, no credit. We must sell them at a loss. We stop carrying them.

All that being said, I want a 4003 one day!!!

 

[willsellout]

I just want to chime in about Rickenbacker as a company. Someone said they "continue to flourish". I wouldn't say that. Look at how few stores carry their instruments. They are hard to find and some colors/configurations are always backordered. They have somewhat of an old-world manufacturing process (read: slow) and that is a big turn off for many music retailers. It also limits how big of a company they can ever become, by their own choice. 2 interesting stories from the music retailer where I work:

Guy A orders a sunburst 360, Guy B orders one the next day. Guy B's comes a week later. Guy A's comes 9 months later.

Store places a big PO. The instruments come in 11 months later and the paint is chipping off. We call, they will not take them back. They say once they hit our warehouse, they are ours, no protection, no credit. We must sell them at a loss. We stop carrying them.

All that being said, I want a 4003 one day!!!

If that's true, wow.

I guess flourish might have been the wrong word to use. I guess I could have said "they are still in business", despite doing things that could put many other businesses under.

 

[guy n. cognito]

What inconsistency in the QC? Rumors. All rumors. Ever since Mr. JH has incorporated CNC into his manufacturing process, the QC has been the best it ever has been, and only gets better. Go check them out further at the factory website and forum or the enthusiast's forum rickresource.com .

Brother, that's the biggest lie of the day. All one has to do is search for any of the recent MF MID thread to find literally dozens of examples of poor QC with recent RICs, including mine. Not only did I have paint and finish problems, but the fretwork was extremely sub par. RIC did make it right, but only after I paid to ship it to them and waited for weeks for a return.

That said, they can be good instruments. I'd recommend that, if one is interested, that they inspect a potential instrument IN PERSON, or buy from a retailer that has a GREAT return policy.

 

[cassius987]

I just want to chime in about Rickenbacker as a company. Someone said they "continue to flourish". I wouldn't say that. Look at how few stores carry their instruments. They are hard to find and some colors/configurations are always backordered. They have somewhat of an old-world manufacturing process (read: slow) and that is a big turn off for many music retailers. It also limits how big of a company they can ever become, by their own choice.

Yeah but... they're highly profitable too. They do business responsibly concerning their employees and environmental impact. Most of their customers are satisfied. I think that's good enough, whether or not they offer a billion finish options or are available at GC or not.

That said, they can be good instruments. I'd recommend that, if one is interested, that they inspect a potential instrument IN PERSON, or buy from a retailer that has a GREAT return policy.

+1 on this point for any instrument, definitely Rics included... Also please try not to accuse people of outright lying, I think that's verging on a personal attack. I don't think iiipopes even saw the thread you're referring to, though I did and I recall several people did have QC issues that all suggested the instruments were "rushed out the door" to me.

 

[guy n. cognito]

But I hate to see new users scared away from any instrument because of half truths, myths, and outright lies. There's a few big name manufacturers that I don't like, but I don't go out of my way to sway anybody away from them. Weird.

Funny, I would hate to see any new user convinced to buy an instrument because of the same things.

For the record, "perfectly flat" mean "a little relief" in the RIC world.

 

[cassius987]

Since people seem to care so much about how RIC does things here's some recent documentation:

Rickenbacker Factory Tour: Model 330 Guitar & Model Bass Construction - YouTube

Rickenbacker Guitars Vintage Instrument Archive - YouTube

Rickenbacker Factory and Tools - YouTube

 

[guy n. cognito]

Yeah but... they're highly profitable too. They do business responsibly concerning their employees and environmental impact. Most of their customers are satisfied. I think that's good enough, whether or not they offer a billion finish options or are available at GC or not.



+1 on this point for any instrument, definitely Rics included... Also please try not to accuse people of outright lying, I think that's verging on a personal attack. I don't think iiipopes even saw the thread you're referring to, though I did and I recall several people did have QC issues that all suggested the instruments were "rushed out the door" to me.

Well, someone claiming that all QC issues are false and based on rumors should better inform himself to avoid the telling of a lie.

 

[audiomitch]

Funny, I would hate to see any new user convinced to buy an instrument because of the same things.

For the record, "perfectly flat" mean "a little relief" in the RIC world.

Not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that since a handful of MID Rics from the MF Blowout sale had issues, ALL Rics have bad QC? If so, that's quite a leap.

Also, how many people have to say to set the relief flat before you acknowledge it? Your position on this is quite perplexing.

 

[BigDBass]

My first "good" bass was a 4003 bought new in the early nineties. I had a good friend, a huge Rush fan, at the time who played guitar and was the jerk responsible for my becoming a bass player. I should mention he's now my brother-in-law!
He insisted that I get a Ric to replace my Kramer. So I could (try to) play Rush tunes with him. I didn't know much so I complied. My gramps paid for 99% of the bass.

It just wasn't/isn't the right bass for me, although its a great instrument, no doubt. Just not right for me in look, feel, or sound. I still own it, and will keep it forever for sentimental value, but I doubt I will play it for more than 10 minutes a year, if that. My bro-in-law borrowed it for 10 or so years, so it has gotten played a bit.

Dan

 

[guy n. cognito]

Not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that since a handful of MID Rics from the MF Blowout sale had issues, ALL Rics have bad QC? If so, that's quite a leap.

Also, how many people have to say to set the relief flat before you acknowledge it? Your position on this is quite perplexing.

Not what I said at all. The MF sale was nothing more than a concentration of RIC sales that demonstrate an ongoing issue that has been around for years: less than stellar QC. That doesn't mean that all RICS have issues, but it does mean that you have a pretty good chance of getting a RIC with an issue. Bridge lift is a great example. RIC fans don't discuss bridge lift as an issue, but rather a "quirk" of an antiquated design.

Go back an look at our last exchange. You acknowledged that RICS are not set "flat", but "virtually flat." You claim the difference between the two to be one of semantics, but this is not the case. Mr. Hall builds a fine instrument, but he has not found a way to defeat the physics of a vibrating string. If anything, this type of dialogue demonstrates how RIC owners can be their own worst enemies. If you look through this site, or the RIC forums, you'll find many examples of new owners trying to get their necks perfectly flat, and finding that the instrument is unplayable. Other owners, rather than acknowledging that there needs to be a little relief, will chide the new owner for their inability to setup a RIC, and pretend that the RIC has setup requirements that vary from other stringed instruments.

 

[willsellout]

I set my Ric up just like my other basses; with a very slight relief in the neck. Ric likes to think it's special in the way you can set them almost flat and play well. They aren't. Any bass with level frets and a properly cut nut can achieve the same results. This is the kind of hyperbole that bugs me when people talk about Ric's. Ric's aren't special. They look great, the sound great, and they can play great. Just like a hundred other basses.

 

[guy n. cognito]

I set my Ric up just like my other basses; with a very slight relief in the neck. Ric likes to think it's special in the way you can set them almost flat and play well. They aren't. Any bass with level frets and a properly cut nut can achieve the same results. This is the kind of hyperbole that bugs me when people talk about Ric's. Ric's aren't special. They look great, the sound great, and they can play great. Just like a hundred other basses.

Thank you for the common sense.

This doesn't mean anything negative about RICs. Rather, it means that they are stringed instruments and behave a such. If you get one with proper fretwork, then you will be able to obtain MINIMAL relief and low action. You should not feel bad, however, if your neck isn't "perfectly flat," as that is near impossible.

 

[Bassoballs]

I purchased my 4003 almost one year ago and I love it. There was a learning curve involved with the set up, but all of the needed information is readily available. I've read of the QC horror stories, but have witnessed none of such with mine. Its a beautiful instrument that I am very happy with.

 

[audiomitch]

Thank you for the common sense.

This doesn't mean anything negative about RICs. Rather, it means that they are stringed instruments and behave a such. If you get one with proper fretwork, then you will be able to obtain MINIMAL relief and low action. You should not feel bad, however, if your neck isn't "perfectly flat," as that is near impossible.

My Ric is set up with no visible relief. I did not use a laser to measure it, but it's visibly flat. John Hall has stated that all the demo instruments sitting around at the Ric factory are "ruler flat". That is how they are designing their instruments. Then they state in the owners manual to set with the littlest relief possible. The smallest amount of relief I achieved was none. Same with most of the other experienced Ric owners here.

I'm going by experience, experienced users, and factory recommendations.

You can use semantics and speculation all you want, but it doesn't really change a thing.

 

[gidbass]

I would say mine is ruler flat as well (no visible relief), and i love it. Can't really compare it to other basses, as I have only owned "less expensive" basses, but it is a dream for me to play.

I agree with everyone else on this thread, and try one before you buy one. I bought mine from MF, and lucked in, it fits me like a glove and the sound is to die for.

So to the OP, Good Luck!