Ibanez EHB intonation

[Jhass]

I have a recently acquired Ibanez EHB 1500 (4-string). I just did a setup and everything is great except that I can’t seem to get the E string to intonate. The open string and 12th fret harmonic are spot on, but when I fret the E string at the 12th fret it is consistently slightly flat. I have the saddle moved as far up (toward the nut-end of the neck) as it will go. All the other strings are behaving perfectly.

I assume that I’m doing something wrong or missing something.

Thoughts?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Are they new strings? Did you set the witness points?


WITNESS POINTS DEMYSTIFIED.

 

[Jhass]

Are they new strings? Did you set the witness points?

WITNESS POINTS DEMYSTIFIED.

yes, and yes. But I will double check them.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Do those have a nut or a zero fret? Is the E seated correctly on the zero fret or is the string all the way down in the nut slot? Is the nut slot angled down towards the string anchor so the string is taking off from the front edge of the nut and not further back?

 

[Jhass]

Do those have a nut or a zero fret? Is the E seated correctly on the zero fret or is the string all the way down in the nut slot? Is the nut slot angled down towards the string anchor so the string is taking off from the front edge of the nut and not further back?

It has a nut. Thanks for the suggestions. I will check.

 

[iiipopes]

1) Try a different string to see if it is twisted or flaw in manufacturing?
2) Make sure the pickup is not too close to the string - magnetic pull of the overtones
3) Check the rest of the setup: nut slot, not just the witness point, but the proper width, depth, geometry and slope back to the tuner; action height, truss rod relief; level properly crowned frets, tuning machine stable and not slipping
4) Check the bridge saddle to make sure it is stable
5) You've already done the "witness points" of the string
6) Make sure the tension in the string is equalized over the bridge and nut so it doesn't slip

 

[Jhass]

1) Try a different string to see if it is twisted or flaw in manufacturing?
2) Make sure the pickup is not too close to the string - magnetic pull of the overtones
3) Check the rest of the setup: nut slot, not just the witness point, but the proper width, depth, geometry and slope back to the tuner; action height, truss rod relief; level properly crowned frets, tuning machine stable and not slipping
4) Check the bridge saddle to make sure it is stable
5) You've already done the "witness points" of the string
6) Make sure the tension in the string is equalized over the bridge and nut so it doesn't slip

Excellent; thank you. I’m going to be bringing this bass in for a bit of fret-end work so I will ask the repair guy what he thinks could be going on. Your suggestions will help me have an intelligent conversation with him.

 

[sotua]

Reviving zombie thread - @Jhass did you take your bass to the tech, and did you get this issue sorted out? I just got a EHB100 and I'm having the same issue, intonation is still about 7 cents flat at the 12th, and the screw is bottomed out, can't shorten the string anymore. Checked everything described in the thread.

 

[Murivan]

You can find more info in the EHB thread, I discussed this problem in September of 2020: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/new-ibanez-headless-multiscale.1437164/page-97#post-24461366
I personally believe that the manufacturing tolerances for that model are incorrect, and the bridge is placed incorrectly. Simply put, there is no way to get a scale length of 34" on the E string.

 

[Smokas]

FYI
I've measured my not EHB basses and results are about:
G - 43.5 cm
E - 44 cm
and there is some space to move saddles both directions, the range is about 43-45 cm.
Looks like something is actually wrong with your EHB.

I've similiar problem with the bridge (opposite to yours - being too near for B string to intonate) and the temporary solution was to use heavier strings.
Mayby you should try lighter strings?

 

[sotua]

FYI
I've measured my not EHB basses and results are about:
G - 43.5 cm
E - 44 cm
and there is some space to move saddles both directions, the range is about 43-45 cm.
Looks like something is actually wrong with your EHB.

I've similiar problem with the bridge (opposite to yours - being too near for B string to intonate) and the temporary solution was to use heavier strings.
Mayby you should try lighter strings?

Thanks, I'll check that.

I really like the bass but it kinda bugs me that I can't get the intonation 100% correct. I'm currently using a .100 E string. I'll see if I can intonate it with a .095 or something like that (time to finally try the Vic Wooten signature strings I guess? and if not I think I'll return the bass.

 

[Murivan]

You will not be able to intonate with a lighter string (if not by chance).
A lighter string will tipically intonate closer to the nominal scale length, since your problem is that you cannot get close enough (you always have a string that is longer than 34") that will only exacerbate the problem.
You might want to try with a heavier string, but the question for me was, Why do I have to compromise on the strings that I use?

 

[Smokas]

Lower mass => higher frequency. The equation is:

Edited: I've messed equation for spring and string

 

[sotua]

Happy (ish?) ending! I was looking at the structure of the monorail bridge closely, and I realized that if I removed the string I was able to make it move a bit more - there's enough space for the saddle to move towards the neck as long as the string height grub screws don't hit the recessed slots for the monorails (you could even replace the intonation screw so you get the full range of movement to where the grub screws meet the edge of the wood slot). So I was able to fix that last 7-10 cents and the intonation is now as ok as it is in my other basses. I also own a EHB1005MS and I can see that the saddle in the EHB1000 ended up a lot more extended than on the 5 string multiscale (the tip of the saddle ended up overhanging the edge of the rail slot on the 4 string, in the 5 string you can see the edge of the slot on every string), but as long as it's intonated with my string of choice, we're good.

Now I just need some stickers to fix the invisible inlays (seriously, who thought small offset abalone inlays would work on a darkish maple board? And those "illuminated" side inlays that are invisible) and that's a keeper. I just love the EHB shape and ergonomics, and I find I actually like the sound coming out of the bartolini H2s (my 5 string was fitted with Nordstrand custom big singles before I bought it, so I never had a chance to try an EHB with barts that had fresh strings on it, only showroom-old strings).

(and I gotta figure out on what bass do I want to put the Vic Wooten strings I ordered lol)

 

[Zooberwerx]

This seems to be a recurring theme among the seemingly over-compensated staggered monorail configurations. A few observations based on my 1405:

*The saddle contact sits back ~ 1/4" from the leading aspect of the saddle sled.
*The sled has a stop-pin on the underside which mates with the base plate. This coincides with the lock-down which also limits forward movement.
*The sled and base plate "spoon" in a zig-zag fashion.

These are cast components and wondering how forgiving if modified via xacto file, spec'ly the stop-pin and lock-down slot? Also, it appears the sled will accommodate a corrective 9/64" saddle slug just ahead of the existing contact...the actual fastening will be a challenge.

Riis

 

[sotua]

Happy (ish?) ending! I was looking at the structure of the monorail bridge closely, and I realized that if I removed the string I was able to make it move a bit more - there's enough space for the saddle to move towards the neck as long as the string height grub screws don't hit the recessed slots for the monorails (you could even replace the intonation screw so you get the full range of movement to where the grub screws meet the edge of the wood slot). So I was able to fix that last 7-10 cents and the intonation is now as ok as it is in my other basses. I also own a EHB1005MS and I can see that the saddle in the EHB1000 ended up a lot more extended than on the 5 string multiscale (the tip of the saddle ended up overhanging the edge of the rail slot on the 4 string, in the 5 string you can see the edge of the slot on every string), but as long as it's intonated with my string of choice, we're good.

I was finding that my intonation was still slightly off and I could see that the screw was already maxed out (the saddle was being held forward by the last few turns of the thread). So I emailed Ibanez and got the proper spec for the original screw (philips pan head M3-0.5 30mm), got me a M3-05 35mm pack from Home Depot, and replaced the E and A string screws. Now the intonation is where it needs to be, and the saddles are actually fully supported by the screws.

Now with pics: It doesn't look super pretty (they didn't have black screws at HD), and you can see the E saddle is actually overhanging the body (and it's sitting beyond the guide slots in the base - but that's fine, it works for Fender regular bridges , but the bass now intonates properly and it plays excellent - I don't feel any significant difference in feel between the E and the other strings.