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Idea: Harmonics from Four Solid Aluminum Rods used as Electric Upright Bass

M

Mustafa Umut Sa

Oct 20, 2007
331
89
istanbul
#1
I am thinking to erect 4 solid aluminum rods on a support and use as my electric upright bass.

No need of strings , tuner , tension , wood , bridge but all is 4 rods , one wood base , one piezo pickup.

I am right hand user and moving your left hand fingers does not change the tones. Its a 4 notes instrument.

But What about harmonics ? Can I get harmonics from these rods and Can I get harmonics from everywhere of rod or only special places like 12th ?

I am total beginner to play and I dont know how to get harmonics from bass and amateur luthier and thought using solid materials can be funny

Happy New Year Everyone , I wish you the Best.
Umut
Istanbul
 
Last edited:
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#3
Matt , thank you for your answer , let me clarify , there will be no tuner , no strings , no bridge.

4 solid aluminum rods and wooden base and piezo sensors are the all instrument.

Solid rods will act as strings and your hands would - I dont know its possible - produce the harmonics from rods.

no tension , no wood , no cutting , no truss rod , no tuner and string and bridge.

best wishes to you,

good evening.

umut
 
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#4
Harmonics are derived from a vibrating string at mathematical points along that string.

How will these “bars” vibrate?

String thickness (relative to scale length) also plays a role. I find that even a .09” E string (on a 34” scale ABG, not an upright) produces “muffled” tones apart from the first and second order harmonics.
 
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#5
Noodler,

Thank you for your answer. Bars might be very thin but thick enough to support their weight.

But what about the density and its place in harmonics.

After reading your post , I thought thin stainless steel wire which thick enough to carry its weight.

What about the silicone tubes inflated and tensioned with pressurized air ?

Is it better idea ?

Thank you and best wishes,

Umut
 
#6
38050F1A-40FB-430C-B36C-DF09F21A9BBB.jpeg


I was picturing something more like this but with the rods along the length of the strings. Not sure on what you’re asking. Seems like once the rods are much thicker then a conventional string you’d need a mallet to get it to sound sort of like a xylophone but with bars instead of flat plates. If that’s the case, doubt you could produce a harmonic in the same manner you would on a conventional string. If I’m still misunderstanding, post some drawings to help clarify your intentions.
 
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#7
As described, I think your instrument would need to be “hammered,” not plucked, and you would likely only get the fundamental from each bar/string.

(Edit: what Matt said)

If your tonal goal is the same as mine - that hollow, sustainy, almost vibraphone-ish sound from your bass - I can only recommend a long scale, thin strings, and constant practice.
 
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#9
Mustafa Umut Sa said:
I am thinking to erect 4 solid aluminum rods on a support and use as my electric upright bass.

No need of strings , tuner , tension , wood , bridge but all is 4 rods , one wood base , one piezo pickup.

I am right hand user and moving your left hand fingers does not change the tones. Its a 4 notes instrument.

But What about harmonics ? Can I get harmonics from these rods and Can I get harmonics from everywhere of rod or only special places like 12th ?

I am total beginner to play and I dont know how to get harmonics from bass and amateur luthier and thought using solid materials can be funny

Happy New Year Everyone , I wish you the Best.
Umut
Istanbul
Click to expand...
Interesting concept. It looks like in order to be able to get the harmonics sounding (and deaden the fundamental) and still have enough output you will need to have a very specific weight-flexibility ratio, and even then, you will be stuck with notes from the harmonic series and will have a hard time playing other notes (e.g. I doubt you'll ever be able to get an F out of your "E rod").

I'd pull out some mechanics textbook to figure out the physics before attempting any major builds.
 
#12
Thank you for your answers,

WSTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELBAR
OSTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELBAR
OSTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELBAR
DPIEZO SENSORSTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELBAR

above one can be played silently like zildjian silent cymbals but amplified with the help of piezo sensor.
it can played by hand because no need to create hammer sound or loud , audible sound.
the problem is to create one tone from one bar but many tones from one bar. Thats why I am thinking the harmonics.

W-INFLARED-AIR-PRESSURIZED-SILICONE-TUBE
O-INFLARED-AIR-PRESSURIZED-SILICONE-TUBE
O-INFLARED-AIR-PRESSURIZED-SILICONE-TUBE
D-INFLARED-AIR-PRESSURIZED-SILICONE-TUBE

INFLARED-AIR-PRESSURIZED-SILICONE-TUBE one might act like an bass string because it is streched and tensioned with air pressure.
 
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#13
I really like this idea. I’m thinking of it as more of a harp. Plucking, bowing, hammering should all work. Harmonics should ring but their tone and volume will depend a lot on the damping in the metal and the base. You might find aluminum to be dull, where steel or bell brass will be livelier. Go for it!
 
#15
I'm all for any thought experiment outside the norm. Go for it!

As others have said, more notes might be difficult. You would basically be working with tuning forks and if you were able to isolate harmonics it would be limited to the harmonic series. However, many brass instruments have the same limitation and they make do, do you may have options if you don't tune to standard bass tuning.

You might be able to "fret" notes by having some type of movable ring that would damp the vibration above a certain point, but I'd think you'd get much muddier tones.

As someone else noted, there is precedent for tubular bell-like instruments, but don't let that stop you!
 
#16
As I understand it, what you are suggesting is sort of a ”bass vibraphone”: So, quoting
Extended Techniques for Vibraphone
”The technique for playing harmonics is fairly simple, and with a little practice, one can consistently execute the technique. Simply touch a fingertip, or a mallet head, on the center of the bar (equidistant between the nodal points of the bar); then, strike the bar directly on a nodal point.”

You should be able to produce at least octaves and fifths I guess.
 
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#17
Matt Liebenau said:
View attachment 3263992

I was picturing something more like this but with the rods along the length of the strings. Not sure on what you’re asking. Seems like once the rods are much thicker then a conventional string you’d need a mallet to get it to sound sort of like a xylophone but with bars instead of flat plates. If that’s the case, doubt you could produce a harmonic in the same manner you would on a conventional string. If I’m still misunderstanding, post some drawings to help clarify your intentions.
Click to expand...
That thing is cool, I always wondered if a chunky fret, no fretboard instrument was possible. I guess it is. Wonder if it’s difficult to play - I guess you would get a different pitch depending how hard you press
 
#18
Start with one "string" and see if you can get it to work. I'm doubtful, the effective tension of a solid rod is too high to allow you to shorten the length of the "string" to alter the notes. At the very least, you can't do it with your hands and the tension needed would leave a bend in the string rod since rods aren't flexible like strings are.
 
#19
Matt Liebenau said:
View attachment 3263992

I was picturing something more like this but with the rods along the length of the strings. Not sure on what you’re asking. Seems like once the rods are much thicker then a conventional string you’d need a mallet to get it to sound sort of like a xylophone but with bars instead of flat plates. If that’s the case, doubt you could produce a harmonic in the same manner you would on a conventional string. If I’m still misunderstanding, post some drawings to help clarify your intentions.
Click to expand...

Somebody made this? I thought I had dreamed this up! Maybe everyone has...
 

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