Ideas for playing with a detuned bass?

[micguy]

If you don't have perfect pitch, detuning a bass is one way to get a long in those situations - I used to keep a bass tuned in D standard, but... I have perfect pitch, which means my brain would hear "C and try to go to where C is on an E standard tuned bass - a detuned bass was actually tough to play. As I play gigs where any key is fair game (the lead singer determines the key a tune is in), I eventually realized that playing a standard tuned 5 was the best approach for me, as the pitches are where I expect them to be.

One other note about detuning - If you have a bass with a pronounced dead spot, try detuning that one to E flat or D. Changing the tuning on a bass is often an excellent way to "hide" a dead spot. Of course, it can go the other way, as well - a dead spot can appear when you detune.

 

[micguy]

Depends on how you talk about it. If he tunes to Eb but still calls it E, then just tune yours to Eb and pretend it's E.

With perfect pitch, there's no pretending.

 

[Cleezmo]

IME, on my basses that use round-core strings with low-but-not-crazy-low action, playing a half-step down requires a bass setup just for that, as my normal setup sounds rattly and terrible if I detune. I occasionally sub for a band that is in Eb, and for that gig I can detune my 35" scale 5string and the tension is fine, but if I detune my 34" basses it sounds and plays like, uh, not good. Just my $0.02.

Another option that I just picked up is a pedal that detunes for you. I use the Boss Polyshift XS-1, but the Digitech Drop has been around forever doing the same thing. You select down one semitone, engage the pedal, play your bass. I do think it affects the tone a small amount, but in a mix, not sure it would be noticeable at all.

 

[mikecd1]

Detuned is turning the tuning fork down a half step. So the E string becomes Eb, the A string becomes Ab, D is Db, and G is Gb.

Hendrix, SRV and other like to detune a half step and if I'm playing with a guitarist who likes to do that I'll pull out my 5 string bass and just play in Eb. To me, that's one of the beauties of the 5 string bass. Key changes, fingerings and positions become easier / more intuitive to play on a 5'er.

 

[danharris]

Tuning to Eb is pretty handy when playing with pianos. They like Eb, its easy to get around in. Then hendrix brought it to rock guitar and the rest is history
I keep a whole seprate bass for Eb. I could never brain transcribe on a 5er

 

[andymac]

OP, I have the same issue as you. I don't have perfect pitch, but I have good enough absolute pitch that tuning down from standard really throws me. My fingers are doing one thing, and my brain is hearing something else. Like, I hit the fifth fret on the low string, and my brain couldn't tell specifically you that an A flat is being played, but I can tell that something is wrong. So my immediate instinct is to think my hand is in the wrong position and correct, and I get all fuddled.

For me, it never got any better with practice. Worse, if I played tuned down too much, then I was confused when I switched back to standard! And then I just didn't know what was real.

For that reason, in this situation, I prefer to transpose, play everything down one fret, I find that easier and less confusing. Occasionally open-string riffs got a little harder, but unless it is super technical music I don't think that matters much. And you lose the low E (E flat), but I don't think that is a big deal. If you're into 5-string, that solves the problem pretty well, but 5-strings aren't my thing.

 

[monsterthompson]

There sure are a lot of ways being suggested to skin this cat. Surprised a pitch shifting effect pedal hasn’t been mentioned yet.

As someone who has primarily associated learning songs with specific finger patterns or positions, and listened to a lot of metal in alternate tunings, the down-tuning has never been an issue for me. I can see how it would be for someone with a different perspective on pitch, particularly if you have perfect pitch and are expecting a particular note. Though I wouldn’t expect that to be radically different from learning any song in a new transposed key. Maybe the difficulty here is the combination of the proximity to the original pitch to the new one combined with the shift in string tuning.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Yeah, using a five string bass is logical. I've gigged several over the years and decided I prefer four string. Thanks for the comments. Sounds like there are many ways to approach this.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

There sure are a lot of ways being suggested to skin this cat. Surprised a pitch shifting effect pedal hasn’t been mentioned yet.

As someone who has primarily associated learning songs with specific finger patterns or positions, and listened to a lot of metal in alternate tunings, the down-tuning has never been an issue for me. I can see how it would be for someone with a different perspective on pitch, particularly if you have perfect pitch and are expecting a particular note. Though I wouldn’t expect that to be radically different from learning any song in a new transposed key. Maybe the difficulty here is the combination of the proximity to the original pitch to the new one combined with the shift in string tuning.

I don't have *perfect* pitch but it's pretty good. I used to drill a free course from Scott's Bass Lessons called "Seven Steps to Learn the Fretboard." It's simple and effective. But in addition to learning where each note is on the fretboard (presuming it's standard tuning), it's pretty hard to avoid getting the various pitches drilled in as well. I find this is especially true for the "money notes" below the fifth or even the seventh frets. It's that muscle/pitch memory that threw me the first time I tried playing with this guy's band detuned a half step. I'm going to keep at it as mastering this is probably just a matter of repetition.

 

[mcnach]

So I just hooked up with a blues guitarist who likes to play with a detuned electric guitar. His preference is fat-gauged strings, so that along with singing range makes him favor detuning. I've never played with a detuned bass before and because my ears were expecting different pitches with my notes, the first session didn't go well. I'm trying to get more comfortable with this approach and wondered if anyone can weigh in with ideas for playing with a detuned bass? It's just a half-step down but I'd like to make my delivery more smooth. Thanks!

do you really need to detune?

play the notes, not the 'fret positions'

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

do you really need to detune?

play the notes, not the 'fret positions'

Gotta have that Low Eb! If you can't hit 'em in the gut with a low E(b), it ain't the blues!

 

[JamesGrant]

If you feel thrown off on a 4 string, do it on a 5 string. Not sure what else there is to say!

 

[theguy316]

If I do things in alternate tunings frequently, I will set up a bass specifically to play in that tuning (Eb, G#, C#, F#). I try to minimize the floppy string experience because I don't enjoy the feeling as much. If you have a backup that's not being played anymore, buy some slightly heavier strings and adjust the truss rod. That way you're not trying to transpose as you play and the feel of the instrument will stay more or less the same. The Eb standard tuning was a very early point of resistance when I was trying to learn "heavier" music.

 

[micguy]

There sure are a lot of ways being suggested to skin this cat. Surprised a pitch shifting effect pedal hasn’t been mentioned yet.

Latency (especially when it varies) drives me nuts.

 

[mambo4]

Detuned is turning the tuning fork down a half step. So the E string becomes Eb, the A string becomes Ab, D is Db, and G is Gb.

to me, "detune" / "downtune" usually implies some alteration of a "standard" 4ths tuning
I think The least confusing way to write this is "Eb standard tuning"

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Tune your bass down a half step, and play. Unless your action is extremely low, in which case you may need to adjust it, here is literally nothing else to worry about.

 

[ravlin]

With perfect pitch, there's no pretending.

Agreed, though I simply meant from the perspective of fretboard/note reference in conversation. It actually took me 30 years to realize that E never sounded right to me because my pitch is good enough to be bothered by the difference and my ears grew up on a bunch of music in Eb.

 

[W_R]

OP, you mentioned keeping a bass in that tuning. Even better that you have multiple basses tuned accordingly and can just switch when you need the other. I think you will settle into it by playing the E flat one regularly as needed.

In general, I recommend doing an instrument setup for the new tuning, though maybe yours is fine and you don’t need it at this point. If you find anything wrong with the action, do the setup.

Personally, I have separate E, E flat and D 4-string tunings, and I go up a string gauge per 1/2 step of detune plus the setup… keeps the timbre right. You mentioned being used to how things sound at regular tuning, the notes are part of that, and you might perceive a difference in timbre when detuned, consider strings as well.

 

[monsterthompson]

I don't have *perfect* pitch but it's pretty good. I used to drill a free course from Scott's Bass Lessons called "Seven Steps to Learn the Fretboard." It's simple and effective. But in addition to learning where each note is on the fretboard (presuming it's standard tuning), it's pretty hard to avoid getting the various pitches drilled in as well. I find this is especially true for the "money notes" below the fifth or even the seventh frets. It's that muscle/pitch memory that threw me the first time I tried playing with this guy's band detuned a half step. I'm going to keep at it as mastering this is probably just a matter of repetition.

I tried to learn pitches from a course I took many years ago. My buddy and I sat around trying to hear what the instructor was describing in the booklet and audio (course was on cassette tapes). I could never get the hang of it. I remember feeling like a failure as a musician because I couldn’t learn perfect pitch. It was years later before I was introduced to the concept of relative pitch, and I wished someone had turned me on to that sooner. It was so much easier to hear movement from a starting pitch and realize that in most pop music I was going to hear movement between the one, four, and five. I was already doing that but didn’t know it was a thing with a name.

I’m not a huge fan of SBL but I might need to look into that course or another one like it.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I'm trying to get more comfortable with this approach and wondered if anyone can weigh in with ideas for playing with a detuned bass? It's just a half-step down but I'd like to make my delivery more smooth. Thanks!

Over the past 20 years I've played and subbed with dozens of bands. Some tune to standard, some tune half-step down. Downtuning is mostly done to make life easier for the vocalists, but as you say, some guitarists do the Stevie Ray Vaughn thing of using heavier strings with half-step down tuning.

The best way to make this work is for everyone in the band to be in the same tuning. That way, in the detuned band, Eb becomes E: that's the new language, regardless of the downtuning. Everyone's on the same page.

If you'd rather keep your bass in the same tuning and transpose -- I've done that but it can be annoying, depending on the tune. Much easier to detune to match your guitarist.

Given that my gigs/bands are split about 50/50 between standard and half-step down, I keep half my basses tuned to standard and the other half downtuned. Makes life SO much easier. I'm not all that fussy about action, but I hate having to detune/retune between bands.



P.S. The all-original blues-rock band I play in now tunes full-step down! This is because the guitarist is recovering from carpal tunnel surgery. So yeah: one of my basses is now tuned full-step down, and strung with heavier gauge strings (DR DDT).


P.P.S. You could get a pitch shifting pedal such as the Boss PolyShifter XS1 or Digitech Drop. Background: as of last year I play in a band that mostly tunes to standard, but 8 or 9 songs are now played half-step down. It's annoying AF, I see no reason why they couldn't play all songs in the same tuning, but I was outvoted. I hate to switch basses at the gig, so for awhile I transposed down a half-step as needed. I play five string so it wasn't a huge deal, but there were a couple songs where transposition was tricky so I bought the PolyShifter, and kick that in when I need half-step down. It tracks wonderfully -- chords included -- and doesn't change tone very much. I would never want to use it for an entire gig (I'd just bring a bass in the appropriate tuning), but maybe it'll work for you.