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IEM Blindness

musicman7722

musicman7722

Feb 12, 2007
3,012
1,381
Hampton NH
www.chrisparkersound.com
#1
First off I apologize for the title. I just didn't know how to word it. I have been usuing IEM now for a few years much to the comic relief of my band (5 peice and FOH). Well FOH respects them. I have had issues with them over time but finally got a NEW Senn G3 and they work great. So I wound up with 3 receivers (don't ask). We had a few weeks off and loaded up the rehersal schedule so I started asking everybody in turn to try the IEM for half a rehersal each just to get a feel for the. Right ouf the box our female vox, sax and keys player loved them. Our lead gtr also took to them right off. Drummer said no due to ear issues which I expected. Now I asked our second guitar and he refused, said it wasn' his thing. Then he went on to say that he was afraid that by more of us using them the number of wedges onstage would be reduced which in turn would reduce the stage volume which in turn would lead to us all having to play quieter onstage...huh.. I didn't know how to answer that. Any ideas? chris P.
 
#2
There are no guitar rigs or wedges in my band. It makes for a clean stage and an easier setup/tear down. You can always argue it's what all of the national acts are doing.

I don't know what your guitar player is talking about. If you have a PA then turning down your stage volume would actually help your sound. I haven't found many sound men who like big guitar rigs. It allows for a cleaner/less muddy mix. The soundman has a lot more control. But to each his own.
 
#3
Sounds like the guitar player is one of those clowns that has to turn his amp up to get "his tone". The less volume coming off the stage the better IME. Before my band went all IEMs we were using Mackie 450s for monitors. We had 5 of them and in some places the stage wash from the monitors bouncing off the walls and ceilings made it really hard to hear the PA well unless we turned it up. Now we can keep the PA volume in check and every thing sounds much cleaner.
 
#4
Our typical setup for about the last year has been 3 guitars through FOH w/o amps, my modest onstage rig, a drummer and a percussionist. We're just starting to experiment with IEMs for our two lead singers/guitarists and myself (I do a few backing vocals). May 15th was our first gig using IEMs and we actually had quite a problem with the rest of the band hearing the vocals. It turns out everyone else was really relying heavily on the wedge monitors. We ended up using the IEMs and the wedges just so the drummer, percussionist and lead guitarist could hear. We need to either have everyone with IEMs or find smaller individual monitors for those that won't use them.
 
#5
modulusman said:
Sounds like the guitar player is one of those clowns that has to turn his amp up to get "his tone". The less volume coming off the stage the better IME. Before my band went all IEMs we were using Mackie 450s for monitors. We had 5 of them and in some places the stage wash from the monitors bouncing off the walls and ceilings made it really hard to hear the PA well unless we turned it up. Now we can keep the PA volume in check and every thing sounds much cleaner.
Click to expand...

Our drummer usese electronic drums and a 450 for his drum amp. Ouch
 
#6
musicman7722 said:
...he went on to say that he was afraid that by more of us using them the number of wedges onstage would be reduced which in turn would reduce the stage volume which in turn would lead to us all having to play quieter onstage...huh.. I didn't know how to answer that.
Click to expand...
answer with a loud "DUH!", followed by a bitch-slap.
 
#7
Sounds like your second guitarist needs a power attenuator to keep his amp tone, but at lower volumes. I personally hate having to set up a bunch of wedges and tear them down later. Tell him that if he wants the wedges, to set them up himself and tear them down himself. Then ask him if he still wants to keep using wedges. I'll pretty sure he'll see the light and switch to IEM's.
 
#8
Brubass said:
Our typical setup for about the last year has been 3 guitars through FOH w/o amps, my modest onstage rig, a drummer and a percussionist. We're just starting to experiment with IEMs for our two lead singers/guitarists and myself (I do a few backing vocals). May 15th was our first gig using IEMs and we actually had quite a problem with the rest of the band hearing the vocals. It turns out everyone else was really relying heavily on the wedge monitors. We ended up using the IEMs and the wedges just so the drummer, percussionist and lead guitarist could hear. We need to either have everyone with IEMs or find smaller individual monitors for those that won't use them.
Click to expand...

Well if guitars were going through the wedges as well, then you'd expect them to have issues if you removed the wedges when they have amps on stage - unless they are playing acoustics...

Or am I missing something here?
 
#13
musicman7722 said:
Now I asked our second guitar and he refused, said it wasn' his thing. Then he went on to say that he was afraid that by more of us using them the number of wedges onstage would be reduced which in turn would reduce the stage volume which in turn would lead to us all having to play quieter onstage...huh.. I didn't know how to answer that. Any ideas? chris P.
Click to expand...


You might ask if he likes the gig and if he wants to continue on ... as I double on guitar form time to time I understand all about the volume/tone thing. My response is running a small high quality amp and micing. Often our guitars come through the wedges anyway... I run BF Princeton Reverb in a Fender Deluxe 1x12 cab with a Vintage Altec installed. It's a really wonderful sounding amp. and it sounds that way with at a reasonable volume level...

An instructor of mine used to tell me -" You don't know a lick until you can play it clean, slow and in time" ... and that "volume does not make up for talent." If you can't make it sound like music quietly, turning up isn't the answer... In one of my bands we can actually talk over the band at rehearsal volume. The drummer uses an e-kit in the practice space. It's a trio and we all sing. We decided a long time back that the stage volume would serve the vocals and everything else was secondary. No suprise the vocals in that situation work better than my other fairly loud surf / rock gig ...
 
#14
Let him keep his wedge.
Since y'all are at least reducing the number of monitors onstage your sound will improve quite a bit, especially since the only wedges left will be in 2 spots instead of spread around pointing in different directions.
Plus, when people are crowded right to the front of the stage (FOH is behind them) they can't hear ANY vocals if there isn't a monitor or two onstage.

IEMs aren't only about reducing stage volume and FOH quality--they are about making musicians happy.
If some of you love them that's great, but they aren't for everybody.
I don't like them when I play, and I'm a professional soundman who should "know better"!

Compromise is what keeps bands together and functioning, so remind the guitarist that you guys compromised in allowing him to keep his wedge when the time comes to ask him to turn down a little.
 
#16
musicman7722 said:
Now I asked our second guitar and he refused, said it wasn' his thing. Then he went on to say that he was afraid that by more of us using them the number of wedges onstage would be reduced which in turn would reduce the stage volume which in turn would lead to us all having to play quieter onstage...huh.. I didn't know how to answer that. Any ideas? chris P.
Click to expand...

??? To me this is a bit like saying if he stops sticking his head in the Fryolator at McDonalds, he'll have to use less burn ointment...

It really is nonsensical.
 
#17
People like different things - let him do what makes him happy. In my band, our lead vocalist/keyboardist/guitarist (don't you just hate multi-talented people...? :D) and I use IEMs, but the other guitarist and the drummer prefer wedges, so they use them. Everyone gets their preferred system of monitoring, so everyone is happy.
 
#19
Happynoj said:
People like different things - let him do what makes him happy. In my band, our lead vocalist/keyboardist/guitarist (don't you just hate multi-talented people...? :D) and I use IEMs, but the other guitarist and the drummer prefer wedges, so they use them. Everyone gets their preferred system of monitoring, so everyone is happy.
Click to expand...

I understand and agree with that, the drift of this thread was to talk about the fact that he wouldn't even give them a try at rehersal and his comments. That's all. Cheers
 
#20
Happynoj said:
People like different things - let him do what makes him happy. In my band, our lead vocalist/keyboardist/guitarist (don't you just hate multi-talented people...? :D) and I use IEMs, but the other guitarist and the drummer prefer wedges, so they use them. Everyone gets their preferred system of monitoring, so everyone is happy.
Click to expand...
I agree. So why is the guitarist trying to tell the rest of the band what sort of monitoring they should use?

This guitarist wasn't being told to use IEM, he was merely asked to give it a try.......
 

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