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IEM concerns

Mike151

Mike151

Dec 22, 2008
547
16
Sherman Texas
www.myspace.com
#1
I have seen lots of posts regarding In Ear Monotor systems but I want to ask specific questions so here we go.
My guitar player/singer wants to go out and buy IEM's for all of us and trash every single floor wedge. I like to think I am open minded to trying things but I feel that there are things that I might be missing out on if we go all IEM.
I love to walk about the stage, next to the drummer, sometimes even behind the guitar player, front stage, next to my rig, well,,, pretty much all over the place. One of the things I enjoy about moving around is how different things sound by just moving a few feet in one direction or another. I like talking to my drummer during dynamic low volume parts of songs and also between songs. I like to hear the crowd and talk to them at times (but don't think it will be the same by micing them off).
I typically have difficulty hearing myself from the floor wedges without my ear filters in but I only put those in for the few songs that I sing backup on and then them suckers are out.
That being said, I would appreciate any experience directly related to my "likes" and IEM's.
I guess I'm afraid that I'm going to feel isolated from everything that makes live fun for me.
Thanks,
Mike
 
#2
I think you will loose all of these perspectives... The sound would be almost the same on every place in the stage. And it will be very dificult to talk to people in the crowd.

But, do you need IEM? Do you sing too?

There are some models that have an ambient microphone attached to it and maybe it can give you diferent ambient sound from diferent positions on stage, but I have never used one of these...
 
#4
IEMs for anyone who wants them. They are most important for the person who has the most trouble hearing himself unless his amp or wedge is so loud that it messes with the sound in the house. (I've been in situations where it sounded great on stage, but in the house it was almost too loud before the PA was turned on, and it could never be made to sound good at a comfortable level without turning all the montors off.) (Also important for the person who wants a clean mix at a safe volume level.) I know some IEM users who are happy with only him/her self in the mix - leakage through their head and their vocal mic gives them enough of everyone else. Others want the full meal deal. Whatever works.)

M-Audio IE-10 earbuds. The first affordable earbud/closed headphone I've heard that comes anywhere near the sound quality of Grado open-air phones. Replaceable cables, and MAP is only $100.

I recommend Sennheiser wireless ears over Shure (better sound, more frequency agility). (The Sennheisers come with earbuds, but they suck - keep them around for emergencies.)
 
#5
Mike...

I was kind of forced (by choice) to get this for one of my setups... SUPER glad I did.. yes still play amps at times.

1-It does take some getting used to not feeling a chest thud.
2-To effectively (really) do this, works best if everyone is committed.. practices at home through cans etc.
3-Plan on 6-7x to get it right - don't judge it while learning.
4-I can blend my mix instantly without dorking the sound guy.

I go DI-no amp for the situation I LOVE not having cymbols ringing in my ears or some guitar player's amp stomping over my playing.


My biggest fault was missing beats by 1/64.. in IEM you can learn to hit it like a metronome.

I have a singing mike hooked up to my ears (only) I don't go live until I"m good... can't do this with wedges.

We developed Paul Shaeffer hand jestures for cues... actually works tons better and faster than bantering (that looks garageband) to your audience.
 
#6
i tour with a few artists who use in ears.
no one i work with has removed floor monitors from the scenario.
sometimes in ear systems fail, so wedges are there as a safety.
one artist uses both, so they can hear vocal harmonies clearly but still feel things like kick drum.
all the iem using artists i work with have ambient mics in their mixes,
so they can hear the full stage and audience sound at a reasonable level.
you really get what you pay for with iem systems.
i suggest getting full molds from westone, or another reputable company. there is a night and day difference between molds and universal buds in both comfort and sound quality.
 
#7
D.A.R.K. said:
i tour with a few artists who use in ears.
no one i work with has removed floor monitors from the scenario.
sometimes in ear systems fail, so wedges are there as a safety.
one artist uses both, so they can hear vocal harmonies clearly but still feel things like kick drum.
all the iem using artists i work with have ambient mics in their mixes, so they can hear the full stage and audience sound at a reasonable level.
Click to expand...

Sidefills would take care of the feel problem.

A few spare IEM channels would be a lot cheaper to own and transport than all those wedges.

Removing the wedges will clean up the sound even for those on ears, and will clean up the house sound a lot.
 
#8
TimmyP said:
Sidefills would take care of the feel problem.

A few spare IEM channels would be a lot cheaper to own and transport than all those wedges.

Removing the wedges will clean up the sound even for those on ears, and will clean up the house sound a lot.
Click to expand...

side fills will wash the entire stage, the wedges allow for focus of the sound only where necessary.
plus with the distance of the side fill from the artists on larger stages you are talking even greater spl to deal with on stage than a close wedge will provide.
none of my clients travel with audio systems, so no cost issues, plus some places are suited for side fills, some are not.
as much as i like having a quieter stage to mix on, some artists want that physical air movement only a speaker will provide.
been able to solve this issue a bit with the drummers using thumper drum thrones, but for the singer that is mobile and wants to feel low end focused on their stage position, whatcha gonna do?
having spare gear is always ideal,
but there is always the rest of the tune to finish and/ or down time while a change of gear happens.
in this scenario, the backup wedge has worked flawlessly.
of course, if we could afford a full dedicated stage tech and monitor engineer it'd be much easier to talk the artist out of their safety zone with the wedges, but until that day comes...
 
#9
"side fills will wash the entire stage, the wedges allow for focus of the sound only where necessary."
​
I don't want to start an argument.. I've run a RTA and DB meter - did not come to the same conclusion.

"singer that is mobile and wants to feel low end focused on their stage position"
​
Have them practice with IEM and give it enough chance to get used to it.

"talk the artist out of their safety zone with the wedges"
​
Sounds like the real issue --- most folks try IEM like foreign food - give it one sniff and hate it before trying it.
 
#13
MNAirHead said:
"side fills will wash the entire stage, the wedges allow for focus of the sound only where necessary."
​
I don't want to start an argument.. I've run a RTA and DB meter - did not come to the same conclusion.
Click to expand...

well, this is my experience, i mix 200 shows a year on average, and do tour support for a living. of course, my statement is a bit of a generalization, because of course it is dependent on the design of the wedges/ fills in question as to their dispersion. however,
when one speaker is 10 feet away from someones head, and another 5 feet and aimed at the head, you usually don't have to turn the closer one up as loud in order to hear it. wedges as opposed to fills also make it easier to please the individual needs for the people i've worked with thus far. not everyone likes the same mix, especially vocalists. ymmv.

MNAirHead said:
"singer that is mobile and wants to feel low end focused on their stage position"
​
Have them practice with IEM and give it enough chance to get used to it.
Click to expand...
the artists i am referring to have been using iem for at least 2 years.
one i've been working with for 11 years, the iem definitely solved a lot of problems. however, they have their own set of issues to deal with
like clean transmission frequencies, batteries, backup receiver/ transmitter/ antenna/ ear buds etc.
i'm not talking about true subs, but the punch in between 80hz and 120hz(roughly)

MNAirHead said:
"talk the artist out of their safety zone with the wedges"
​
Sounds like the real issue --- most folks try IEM like foreign food - give it one sniff and hate it before trying it.​
Click to expand...

well, some folks do it for the visceral experience and joy of volume,
being with their friends, and the chaos of the difference that comes with a different situation every night.
i don't use iem when performing for this reason.
probably also why i enjoy mixing... it's a challenge.
some folks enjoy the bubble more to go to a different place, and are looking for a different type of communication and result.
this has just as much to do with folks prference for ears or not as all the tech reasoning.​
 

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