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IEM for Bass Players

One thing I noticed, at least with balanced armatures, is they really don't have a lot of low end. I bought some Shure 535s last year and the low end was quite terrible and it really messes with your feel. Or at least for me it does. It was kind of a non-issue when we had an amp on stage as well, but that's tucked in the back now and my bass will just sound terrible through the IEM mix. I'd try to get a set that at least has one dynamic driver in it. I'm going to start messing with some of the chi-fi ones people are mentioning to see how it compares.
 
I’ll pipe in to add that my experience with Shure 425’s was terrible. Even with Comply foam tips. Moved to custom Alclair’s that fit on the first try and sound great. Just bought some KZ ZAX’s with Comply tips for fun - can’t beat KZ for the money. Less isolation than customs but great sound.
 
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I just bought a pair of these and a wired headphone amp:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X3TV5MJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Eventually I will get a wireless system but since I play keys and sing backup too, usually in bars and smaller clubs, Im pretty stationary. I figured this will be an inexpensive entry into IEMs. A previous band had a Carvin IEM system and I tried it for a couple gigs and it was really weird. I figured this would take some time for me to get used to and by then Ill either upgrade or go back to a floor monitor.
 
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I've been using KZs for a few years and for the price I couldn't be happier. Band is making good money so I'm trying out some Wavs Customs. They are kinda halfway between custom and universal fit. When I get them I'll try to report back.
 
When looking a purchasing IEM's/buds - I look at it this way.
Would you put your entire band thru a PA that only had a single speaker on each side of the stage?
Probably not.. it would sound awful right? :vomit:

So why would you buy single driver IEMs/buds and put them right up against your ear? Think about it.

We have PA speakers with multiple drivers because they are more efficient, have built-in crossovers to send specific frequency ranges to specific-duty speakers, and allow for better separation of audio content!
More pleasing to the listener with little ear fatigue under normal use!

It makes perfect sense to do the same for the speakers (IEM/buds) next to your ears!
 
I think it would be helpful to know your budget, but if you have the budget for custom molded IEMs, I couldn't recommend that highly enough. I use the 64 Audio A6ts, but certainly look into Alclair if you were looking for a more affordable option - they have rather affordable universals too.
 
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I use a pair of 1964 molded ears- very nice- lucked out and got them for free from a touring act I worked with that had a deal. I also have a set of Shure 535 pro. The Shure are superior sonically, less colored, I can mix on them for studio type stuff and they translate much better. However, I prefer the 1964 molds because the low end is so much better- just can't get a the Shure to fit and couple consistently, no matter what foam inserts I use.
 
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YIKES... I hope you love them! And that's for 4-drivers with only 2 audio ports. And I thought 64Audio's were kinda pricey!! I got my A8's on artist discount, when doing 90+ gigs a year and they have 8 drivers and 4 ports!

I would be hard-pushed to upgrade to a set of new N8's given their [current] price and the much fewer gigs I'm doing now (thanks C19!)

I very much do! Mike was great to work with regarding choosing the right model (ended up with a set of Q4HD) and my custom faceplates (I'm obviously a big fan of Halloween):

tempImage0CXDqf.png
 
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I've personally had a great experience with Alclair Audio - cheaper than 64 Audio by a long shot, and they're a lovely bunch (it's mostly a family shop) that have always gone above and beyond to help. Hold out until their Black Friday sale and you can score some amazing CIEMS for a really fair price. I personally have the Dual XB and the Spire IEMs and both are amazing!
 
I've personally had a great experience with Alclair Audio - cheaper than 64 Audio by a long shot, and they're a lovely bunch (it's mostly a family shop) that have always gone above and beyond to help. Hold out until their Black Friday sale and you can score some amazing CIEMS for a really fair price. I personally have the Dual XB and the Spire IEMs and both are amazing!
Love my Alclair’s!
 
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Sucks reading this thread - I have hearing damage and can't handle sealed earbuds or similar, along with having extremely narrow canals and a serious inner ear disorder... it all spells no IEM.

I wish I could - it would be ideal for me.

Technically speaking though - there are plenty of extremely high end studio headphone and inner ear hearing systems that are single driver, so imho don't get stuck on more than one driver meaning better. There are multiple ways to make earbud style drivers... and better can be using any technology.

Good luck - I'll be very interested to "hear" the results!
 
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Sucks reading this thread - I have hearing damage and can't handle sealed earbuds or similar, along with having extremely narrow canals and a serious inner ear disorder... it all spells no IEM.

I wish I could - it would be ideal for me.

Technically speaking though - there are plenty of extremely high end studio headphone and inner ear hearing systems that are single driver, so imho don't get stuck on more than one driver meaning better. There are multiple ways to make earbud style drivers... and better can be using any technology.

Good luck - I'll be very interested to "hear" the results!

Your and I have the same ears apparently, same hearing loss, and the same chronic inner ear disease. Luckily they work for me.
 
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When looking a purchasing IEM's/buds - I look at it this way.
Would you put your entire band thru a PA that only had a single speaker on each side of the stage?
Probably not.. it would sound awful right? :vomit:

So why would you buy single driver IEMs/buds and put them right up against your ear? Think about it.

sorry, just have to point out the flaws in that comparison: (yes I know, I'm sorry, I can't help it, and I'm honestly not trying to be mean or insulting... I have a problem, I know. Please accept this from the educational point of view that it is intended!)

- speakers REQUIRE more than one size and type of driver to cover the full audio spectrum loudly and efficiently and with low distortion (by speaker standards). Yes I know of home hifi single driver speakers that people love, and can extend pretty darn well. But no where near possible at stage levels which was the comparison given. Earbuds do not require a larger diaphragm to reach down below 20Hz with full force, nor do they require a smaller lighter diaphragm to reach 20kHz perfectly well. I'm not saying that all single diaphragm earbud systems sound great. But the TECHNOLOGY is NOT LIMITED by using a single diaphragm. There may be plenty of other reasons why the Shure models, in particular, are weak in the bass. But since you can buy single diaphragm earbuds at the local electronics store (not for stage use) that have a ton of bass and sound amazing throughout the spectrum, the challenge in making stage suitable inner ear designs is not limited by using a single driver.

- speakers REQUIRE small diaphragm tweeters, possibly with a horn for controlled dispersion and wildly increased efficiency, for the treble frequencies to not be like a super directional piston that you can only hear when directly in line of the front of the speaker. earbuds and headphones do not.

- speakers REQUIRE large diaphragm woofers, possibly with a horn for wildly increased efficiency (but dispersion is irrelevant down low), to move enough air to produce loud deep audio at room levels or stage levels. earbuds and headphones do not.

- earbuds and headphones use drivers that move very short distances... and in the case of sealed inner ear designs, they move EXTREMELY short distances and must have extreme control (generally assisted electronically) of the levels so that they do not damage your hearing. This may be related to the choices made by Shure, although it certainly does sound like the Shure units are more vocal oriented than for the bassist. So moving a very short distance negates the requirement for multiple drivers completely.

Now... all that being said, I'm absolutely not dismissing the greatness of the touted multi driver inner ear systems mentioned in this thread. I can't use any of these, and I completely believe the highly rated units are great.

But I can't believe for a moment that there aren't also great units that use a single driver design and still have plenty of bass. I suspect, but am only assuming from lots of experience with speaker design and the physics therein (no experience designing earbud systems, just the theories therein), that using multiple drivers allows the control over output of different frequency ranges to be maximized for your hearing while not ever overloading your ear. I also suspect that the Shure units are designed for the vocalist, not the bassist, based on what I've been googling about them.

DHDIK right?

Anyhow - as your were. no need to reply or argue - I'm just stating facts about physics, and trying to remind people to have an open mind, and not presume that more drivers MUST equal better sound as a result of the multiple drivers exclusively.
 
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I'm a convert from Shure 215 buds to the KZ buds. I don't recall what model KZ I have.
I use them for gigs on keys but I did use both on bass gigs in the past. The Shure 215 sounded limited bandwidth to me.
All mids. The KZs are much better.

I just use the best size tips that came with the package. If I had a super perfect seal on the tips, I would need my in ear mix to be perfect too, and on the gigs I get, that's never going to happen.
 
sorry, just have to point out the flaws in that comparison: (yes I know, I'm sorry, I can't help it, and I'm honestly not trying to be mean or insulting... I have a problem, I know. Please accept this from the educational point of view that it is intended!)

- speakers REQUIRE more than one size and type of driver to cover the full audio spectrum loudly and efficiently and with low distortion (by speaker standards). Yes I know of home hifi single driver speakers that people love, and can extend pretty darn well. But no where near possible at stage levels which was the comparison given. Earbuds do not require a larger diaphragm to reach down below 20Hz with full force, nor do they require a smaller lighter diaphragm to reach 20kHz perfectly well. I'm not saying that all single diaphragm earbud systems sound great. But the TECHNOLOGY is NOT LIMITED by using a single diaphragm. There may be plenty of other reasons why the Shure models, in particular, are weak in the bass. But since you can buy single diaphragm earbuds at the local electronics store (not for stage use) that have a ton of bass and sound amazing throughout the spectrum, the challenge in making stage suitable inner ear designs is not limited by using a single driver.

- speakers REQUIRE small diaphragm tweeters, possibly with a horn for controlled dispersion and wildly increased efficiency, for the treble frequencies to not be like a super directional piston that you can only hear when directly in line of the front of the speaker. earbuds and headphones do not.

- speakers REQUIRE large diaphragm woofers, possibly with a horn for wildly increased efficiency (but dispersion is irrelevant down low), to move enough air to produce loud deep audio at room levels or stage levels. earbuds and headphones do not.

- earbuds and headphones use drivers that move very short distances... and in the case of sealed inner ear designs, they move EXTREMELY short distances and must have extreme control (generally assisted electronically) of the levels so that they do not damage your hearing. This may be related to the choices made by Shure, although it certainly does sound like the Shure units are more vocal oriented than for the bassist. So moving a very short distance negates the requirement for multiple drivers completely.

Now... all that being said, I'm absolutely not dismissing the greatness of the touted multi driver inner ear systems mentioned in this thread. I can't use any of these, and I completely believe the highly rated units are great.

But I can't believe for a moment that there aren't also great units that use a single driver design and still have plenty of bass. I suspect, but am only assuming from lots of experience with speaker design and the physics therein (no experience designing earbud systems, just the theories therein), that using multiple drivers allows the control over output of different frequency ranges to be maximized for your hearing while not ever overloading your ear. I also suspect that the Shure units are designed for the vocalist, not the bassist, based on what I've been googling about them.

DHDIK right?

Anyhow - as your were. no need to reply or argue - I'm just stating facts about physics, and trying to remind people to have an open mind, and not presume that more drivers MUST equal better sound as a result of the multiple drivers exclusively.
Thanks for this - these are great points.

The main reason for having multiple drivers is that the balanced armature drivers used in a lot of (not all) IEMS have narrow ranges of frequencies that they can reproduce efficiently. They fall off quite steeply outside of those ranges. Therefore you need to either have lots of them (expensive to produce) to cover a lot of sonic ground, or you have fewer (less expensive to produce) and make compromises about what frequencies will have strong response and which don't.

Dynamic drivers, on the other hand, can cover much wider ranges of frequencies efficiently, and so you don't need lots of them to cover a lot of sonic ground, especially (as @dkelley noted) if they're close to the ear and don't need t worry about directionality and a number of other factors. There are high-end earbuds that use dynamics either in a single-driver configuration or multiple, or even combined with balanced armatures. There are also lower-end earbuds that use dynamics, such as the Shure se215 or, of course, most consumer earbuds including as Apple's earpods or the like. The shure se215 isn't a great earbud, but it's not simply because it is single-driver.

So if you're talking about balanced armatures, more might be better, but design and intended use makes a huge difference. @s0c9 we've had (hopefully!) healthy discussions in the past about this but I can't agree with a blanket recommendation of triple drivers or more, without recommending that the buyer look hard at what the intended sonic profile is and what design compromises you're willing to make. Not all 3-driver earbuds are bass/mid/treble, and not all 3-driver earbuds have a big bass driver. Not all 2-driver earbuds lack bass - there are some satisifed Alclair dual XB users in this thread, including me. The sonic compromises made for that model work for me - as does the price.

Finally, to all of those who just throw out a recommendation of 64 audio or JH or other >$1000 earbuds...there's a lot more out there at more accessible price points that might be more appropriate to suggest to someone who's looking at their first upgrade from se215s! Or...just ask: hey @pshep68, what's your budget?
 
Your and I have the same ears apparently, same hearing loss, and the same chronic inner ear disease. Luckily they work for me.
damn! That's crazy. Meniere's disease, in my case, along with some hearing damage from both music and multiple extended meniere's flare ups through my adult life.

However one of the forms of hearing damage means I can't handle very loud sounds in my right ear - it literally sounds like it's clipping when I hear loud music. I mean, loud has to be taken in context, but I can't handle IEMs in the right ear, and unfortunately can't handle loud stage volumes without IEMs, which is complex.

Also, when I get a flare up, I frequently hear low notes (like, where a bass plays) quite out of tune - ONLY with my right ear. Like a semi-tone sharp or flat compared to my left ear. Crazy stuff.

But, I get by. Playing violin yet.... I manage to get by. Fretless bass can be a challenge, but most of the time I can hear pitch fine without the physical problem happening.
 
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