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IEM for Bass Players

#41
Fun Size Nick said:
Thanks for this - these are great points.

The main reason for having multiple drivers is that the balanced armature drivers used in a lot of (not all) IEMS have narrow ranges of frequencies that they can reproduce efficiently. They fall off quite steeply outside of those ranges. Therefore you need to either have lots of them (expensive to produce) to cover a lot of sonic ground, or you have fewer (less expensive to produce) and make compromises about what frequencies will have strong response and which don't.

Dynamic drivers, on the other hand, can cover much wider ranges of frequencies efficiently, and so you don't need lots of them to cover a lot of sonic ground, especially (as @dkelley noted) if they're close to the ear and don't need t worry about directionality and a number of other factors. There are high-end earbuds that use dynamics either in a single-driver configuration or multiple, or even combined with balanced armatures. There are also lower-end earbuds that use dynamics, such as the Shure se215 or, of course, most consumer earbuds including as Apple's earpods or the like. The shure se215 isn't a great earbud, but it's not simply because it is single-driver.

So if you're talking about balanced armatures, more might be better, but design and intended use makes a huge difference. @s0c9 we've had (hopefully!) healthy discussions in the past about this but I can't agree with a blanket recommendation of triple drivers or more, without recommending that the buyer look hard at what the intended sonic profile is and what design compromises you're willing to make. Not all 3-driver earbuds are bass/mid/treble, and not all 3-driver earbuds have a big bass driver. Not all 2-driver earbuds lack bass - there are some satisifed Alclair dual XB users in this thread, including me. The sonic compromises made for that model work for me - as does the price.

Finally, to all of those who just throw out a recommendation of 64 audio or JH or other >$1000 earbuds...there's a lot more out there at more accessible price points that might be more appropriate to suggest to someone who's looking at their first upgrade from se215s! Or...just ask: hey @pshep68, what's your budget?
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Thank you for taking my post as it was intended (yes, I know you're not the person I was replying to, but I appreciate that you addressed him in your reply, very very clear and helpful for everyone's points!) - excellent info, and I truly appreciate it. Yea, the balanced armature drivers aren't my forte at all... so very fascinating stuff!
 
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#42
dkelley said:
Sucks reading this thread - I have hearing damage and can't handle sealed earbuds or similar, along with having extremely narrow canals and a serious inner ear disorder... it all spells no IEM.

I wish I could - it would be ideal for me.

Technically speaking though - there are plenty of extremely high end studio headphone and inner ear hearing systems that are single driver, so imho don't get stuck on more than one driver meaning better. There are multiple ways to make earbud style drivers... and better can be using any technology.

Good luck - I'll be very interested to "hear" the results!
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The larger drivers of over ear headphones can handle alot more comparatively to in ear drivers its not really a applicable comparison even so alot of newer over ear designs are coming out with coaxial / dual element drivers for over ears and even a few are multi driver. I can say this from direct experience with both and I have used hundreds of pairs of iem's and over ear headphones at this point as a live/ studio musician and audio engineer, reviewer, and I collect iem's as a hobby for fun. You can get away with a higher end set of single driver iem's for sure but in my experience even the lower end triple driver iem's I have used out performed them. The difference can be subtle sometimes or it can be drastic. The difference mainly is depending on your use case but it is definitely not snake oil it allows more clarity better instrument separation, lower noise floor/ distortion as using more drivers allows more headroom at each frequency range this all allows more volume and helps keep them from clipping.
 
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#43
I read a bunch of reviews and the consensus was that the most neutral-sounding KZ buds are the AS12s, so I bought a set.

They compare favorably to my AKG K-240 and Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones.

With a set of Comply tips, I get a good enough seal to keep volume low while standing next to the drumset.

After a 3 hour gig, I have no ear fatigue…
 
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#45
s0c9 said:
When looking a purchasing IEM's/buds - I look at it this way.
Would you put your entire band thru a PA that only had a single speaker on each side of the stage?
Probably not.. it would sound awful right? :vomit:

So why would you buy single driver IEMs/buds and put them right up against your ear? Think about it.

We have PA speakers with multiple drivers because they are more efficient, have built-in crossovers to send specific frequency ranges to specific-duty speakers, and allow for better separation of audio content!
More pleasing to the listener with little ear fatigue under normal use!

It makes perfect sense to do the same for the speakers (IEM/buds) next to your ears!
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Well, I understand your point but I could also disagree.
I use Shure 215 IEM that are entry level product. But that's fine for me as I have my rig behind me.
I don't want to have a perfect isolation to hear my rig, and the rest of the band in the IEM. That's a perfect balance for me.
If I would use only IEM without a real rig, I would probably use some high end product. But it's not the case.
 
#46
I have a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-E70's. Universal fit, 3 drivers (bass,mid,hi) and pretty balanced sound. With Comply Foam tips I get a very similar sound to my HD 25's. Slightly lighter in the low end, but this is easily corrected at the monitor desk mix send EQ. I haven't used them for bass gigs yet, but I've done plenty of IEM monitor mixing shows with them. As stated above, getting a good seal is of paramount importance when considering "bass" in IEM buds. Any leakage, and the low-end is the first to suffer.
 
#51
baxter_x said:
I use the 215. I was actually considering the 425....
But the weird thing is I feel the 215 are actually very fine for bass.
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I agree with you actually, to an extent. I felt that they handled low frequencies quite adequately, but lost clarity in a thick mix. The extra clarity to be able to hear kick drum accurately is the biggest positive change for me with my Alclair dual XBs.
 
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#53
baxter_x said:
I use the 215. I was actually considering the 425....
But the weird thing is I feel the 215 are actually very fine for bass.
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I bought a pair of the Shure 215's a couple of weeks ago for an upcoming gig because my Westone custom ES50's are out for replacement of a blown LF driver. They certainly don't measure up to my ES50's, but in the end they really are quite usable. No complaints here. They even reproduce the 808 boom we are using in one song quite well.
 
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#54
For the money they KZ10 or Kz12 with different tips. They sound great! I also suffer from tinnitus. Just listening to music I can hear sounds I haven’t in many years with these. Amazing. Now we just need some serious medical advances in hearing repair. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
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#55
dkelley said:
damn! That's crazy. Meniere's disease, in my case, along with some hearing damage from both music and multiple extended meniere's flare ups through my adult life.

However one of the forms of hearing damage means I can't handle very loud sounds in my right ear - it literally sounds like it's clipping when I hear loud music. I mean, loud has to be taken in context, but I can't handle IEMs in the right ear, and unfortunately can't handle loud stage volumes without IEMs, which is complex.

Also, when I get a flare up, I frequently hear low notes (like, where a bass plays) quite out of tune - ONLY with my right ear. Like a semi-tone sharp or flat compared to my left ear. Crazy stuff.

But, I get by. Playing violin yet.... I manage to get by. Fretless bass can be a challenge, but most of the time I can hear pitch fine without the physical problem happening.
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Yes, I have Meniere's too. I understand.
 
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#58
pshep68 said:
Looking at the AS10s on Amazon. You can purchase them with or without mic... Please explain.
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The mic is for use with a phone or computer. The cables are interchangeable, so you’re not locked in to having a mic or not if you change your mind. I have a set of AS10s, which I bought with the mic option, which I use only with my phone & computer for listening to music, doing zoom calls etc.
 

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