IEM for Bass Players

[Dvbssman]

It's called occlusion. The low frequencies are transmitted into your sealed ear canal through your skull. It can be mitigated by venting or molds that extend deep into the ear canal.

To hear this in practice, try singing "eee" while plugging your ears with your fingers, or something, and increase the insertion depth. If the sound gets quieter, your issue can be mitigated by ordering customs made from good, deep impressions extending into the bony part of your ear.

Thanks. I could be that because I am a baritone it causing some of the problem. I do notice when hitting higher notes the vocals sound more normal, more like the sound I get with over the ear headphones. Molds going deeper into the ear canal sounds like it could help. That would raise the level of the mix above the occlusion sound. Any suggestions on companies that make these molds? I don’t mind spending money to solve this problem.

 

[drpepper]

...Molds going deeper into the ear canal sounds like it could help...

If it's actually the case that simply changing the depth will be a solution, you might try different tips before jumping in with both feet on customs to see what effect you get. Also, if I were going down the same path, I'd consider talking to an audiologist about the specifics prior to getting molds done.

I'm really not trying to come off as a triple-flange evangelist but afaik, my molds and IEMs were done at typical depths and triple flange tips are deeper (about equal to the second flange).

 

[Dvbssman]

If it's actually the case that simply changing the depth will be a solution, you might try different tips before jumping in with both feet on customs to see what effect you get. Also, if I were going down the same path, I'd consider talking to an audiologist about the specifics prior to getting molds done.

I'm really not trying to come off as a triple-flange evangelist but afaik, my molds and IEMs were done at typical depths and triple flange tips are deeper (about equal to the second flange).

Thanks. I think I have some of those triple tips. I will try and let you know.

 

[Dvbssman]

Thanks. I think I have some of those triple tips. I will try and let you know.

I just tried the triple tips and the vocals sound better. They reduced the sound thru the bone. I did have a problem inserting into my left ear. Evidently I have curve in that canal. Also both ears hurt with those triple tips that deep. Anyway the experiment did prove that a tip going deeper into my ear does reduce the occlusion. All you guys that responded were very helpful. Thanks

 

[drpepper]

...both ears hurt with those triple tips that deep

Maybe try cutting the third flange off

 

[Dvbssman]

Maybe try cutting the third flange off

I cut the third flange off. That solved the pain issue and they were still deep enough to greatly reduce the occlusion. The only problem is that it takes too much time to push both into my ear canals. I think customs will solve all my problems.

 

[erayser]

If it's actually the case that simply changing the depth will be a solution, you might try different tips before jumping in with both feet on customs to see what effect you get. Also, if I were going down the same path, I'd consider talking to an audiologist about the specifics prior to getting molds done.

I'm really not trying to come off as a triple-flange evangelist but afaik, my molds and IEMs were done at typical depths and triple flange tips are deeper (about equal to the second flange).

I noticed your alclair tips are tapered like mine. Once in a great while, I'll lose my seal... and I have to push and adjust one side or the other to re-seal. I thought mine didn't go deep enough with the tapered tip, or maybe it was pressure build up that was causing it to lose it's seal. It wasn't often, so I never complained about it... until I got my 64 Audio customs. My 64's goes in a bit deeper my ear canal, but the tip is wider and not as tapered as my alcairs. The seal and fit is 100 times better, and I never had to re-adjust or encountered any seal loss. Also the APEX module really helps in not building up pressure in my ear, and I can leave them in longer without any discomfort.

I cut the third flange off. That solved the pain issue and they were still deep enough to greatly reduce the occlusion. The only problem is that it takes too much time to push both into my ear canals. I think customs will solve all my problems.

I could never recommend to anyone to go customs... but like you, universal tips didn't work out for me. Customs worked well for me. I'm very happy with my 64's, which is why I'm going to purchase a backup set from 64 Audio during the Black Friday sale. Hope it works out for you also.

 

[drpepper]

...My 64's goes in a bit deeper my ear canal, but the tip is wider and not as tapered as my alcairs.

Yep, from that picture, your Alclairs are definitely what I'd call "stubby". It's not ideal to try to judge from one or two pictures, and with mine, I think in-person or enough pictures to get a 3D view would be necessary to fully appreciate what's going on with them. It's a bit of an exaggeration to call it this but they almost have a gentle "corkscrew twist" that just doesn't really seem to translate to pictures, and they seem to me to be in the same by-eye ballpark range of length as most others that I've seen or seen pictures of.

Lots of possibilities...some companies may tend to go deeper than others by their design, maybe there's simply an amount of variation between and within a company's builds, individual results might be partly dependent on some aspect of the mold, maybe anything is possible by request (I certainly didn't make any request one way or the other).

Anyway, good that you found something that was an improvement. For myself and my ears, I find that once the Alclairs are in, they're in and I don't really experience pressure build up as an issue or any seal issues. Initially moving to customs and choosing an untported/unvented model, there were some sensations that seemed odd at first, but I've become fully accustomed to them, so I can go back and forth in my thinking on what porting would do for me.

All that said, personally, I don't know that I can see myself going any further with customs. I didn't get them out of any particular need (my Westones were fine but getting really old)...my ears do well with various tips on various IEMs, so there's a whole universe of choices open to me. The past few months on whim, I've actually been having a good time trying various budget IEMs...just got a set yesterday that I was messing with last night. Most have been impressive in ways, and for what I want and what I do, I could be happy using most of them for playing live. At the end of the day, as a weekend player without the most exacting wants or needs and with varying stage situations, any of a number of IEMs will get the job done for me.

 

[s0c9]

I could never recommend to anyone to go customs... but like you, universal tips didn't work out for me. Customs worked well for me. I'm very happy with my 64's, which is why I'm going to purchase a backup set from 64 Audio during the Black Friday sale. Hope it works out for you also.

I most certainly would recommend customs, but only for those can afford them, NEED them (because universals don't work - like they don't for me) and gig on a regular [frequent] basis.
I've been 99.99% IEM since 2010. Gone thru the universe of universals, different tips, wired, etc. until I was told I have small ear canals during a hearing test.
Splurged for a set of 64 Qi's (4-driver) and years later upgraded to the A8's.
Love 'em. Don't gig as much as I used to, but would NEED to stay with customs as universals don't work, fit or stay put!

For those whom universals work.. I say GREAT! STICK WITH THEM! No need for customs if the seal works for you!
There's a ton of relatively cheap ones out there that sound great.. the KZ/AS series for example.
I've listened to most, but can't use them, so.. Que sera, sera!

 

[erayser]

I most certainly would recommend customs, but only for those can afford them, NEED them (because universals don't work - like they don't for me) and gig on a regular [frequent] basis.
I've been 99.99% IEM since 2010. Gone thru the universe of universals, different tips, wired, etc. until I was told I have small ear canals during a hearing test.
Splurged for a set of 64 Qi's (4-driver) and years later upgraded to the A8's.
Love 'em. Don't gig as much as I used to, but would NEED to stay with customs as universals don't work, fit or stay put!

For those whom universals work.. I say GREAT! STICK WITH THEM! No need for customs if the seal works for you!
There's a ton of relatively cheap ones out there that sound great.. the KZ/AS series for example.
I've listened to most, but can't use them, so.. Que sera, sera!

The only reason why I can't recommend customs is because I can't 100% guarantee that it will work for them. I would feel bad if they spent hundreds/thousands dollars because I recommended it... and it didn't work out for them. But I do agree that if they can afford customs, it would be worth it if universals isn't cutting it. I was fortunate that the church I played at purchased my first custom IEM's, and I was able experience and hear the value in customs. I can now justify the cost in purchasing custom IEM's... but only if I have the cash for it. My Alclairs are old, and not working well on one side... so I'm replacing them with new pair of 64's as a back up. I have the cash, but just waiting for the annual black friday sale.

 

[Dvbssman]

The only reason why I can't recommend customs is because I can't 100% guarantee that it will work for them. I would feel bad if they spent hundreds/thousands dollars because I recommended it... and it didn't work out for them. But I do agree that if they can afford customs, it would be worth it if universals isn't cutting it. I was fortunate that the church I played at purchased my first custom IEM's, and I was able experience and hear the value in customs. I can now justify the cost in purchasing custom IEM's... but only if I have the cash for it. My Alclairs are old, and not working well on one side... so I'm replacing them with new pair of 64's as a back up. I have the cash, but just waiting for the annual black friday sale.

Is their Black Friday sale the day after Thanksgiving?

 

[erayser]

Is their Black Friday sale the day after Thanksgiving?

Last year, it started the Monday of Thanksgiving week.

 

[s0c9]

The only reason why I can't recommend customs is because I can't 100% guarantee that it will work for them.

I thought about this and have to ask why?
Other than poorly made molds (no bite block, wrong material, etc.) customs should work for everyone.. AFAIK!

 

[erayser]

I thought about this and have to ask why?
Other than poorly made molds (no bite block, wrong material, etc.) customs should work for everyone.. AFAIK!

You're right that if the molds are done right, it will work for them. It's mainly the cost of customs that makes me uncomfortable to tell someone, "it's worth the price to buy/try them because I recommend it". But then again, people who dive into customs probably can afford them.

I still play with the musicians that played with the church that paid for our first customs. Some moved to different churches, but now some use universals because they either broke, or damaged from earwax... The guitar player who has issues with earwax damage said he would never buy customs again because it's not worth the cost to send them in for deep cleaning, and can't justify the cost for a new pair. I can't really justify the cost of my latest 64's... and people would say to me, "you paid how much?"... hahaha... but I don't regret the $$$ I spent for them.

If my guitar player friend could justify the cost for new CIEM's, I would recommend Audio 64's because of the mesh screen they use... instead of the multiple bore tubes like on our Alclairs. Earwax can easily enter the open bore tubes... and it's a $150 deep cleaning charge + shipping cost to send them in. Yes, he could have done a better job in maintenance, but he's swears he did. After 2 deep cleanings... he was done. I'm not sure the mesh on my 64's is designed to prevent earwax from entering in, but it does make it harder to encounter earwax damage, and the larger single bore with mesh is easier clean and maintain.

 

[Dvbssman]

Thinking about buying the 64 Audio N8 (9 driver) custom IEM’s but that $1700 price tag is steep. I can afford it but my Shure SE535 3 driver IEM’s sound very good except for the occlusion effect. Do all those extra drivers really make much difference in the sound? I have some hearing loss and don’t think I can even hear above 4kHz. Also can anybody here tell me the cost of having an audiologist make my ear molds?

 

[Wild_Bill_57]

Ear impressions typically cost $50-100 depending on the audiologist. Should take about 15-20 minutes. Make sure they go past the second bend in the ear canal. Also use a 1” bite block (trust me) this will keep your jaw in the right position and help the fit later.

 

[morrisonhendrix]

Ear impressions typically cost $50-100 depending on the audiologist. Should take about 15-20 minutes. Make sure they go past the second bend in the ear canal. Also use a 1” bite block (trust me) this will keep your jaw in the right position and help the fit later.

I can verify that this is the way. I've had them done several times over the years. My impressions never cost more than $40-$50 by a top audiologist. Once you have custom IEMs, you'll wonder why you never did it before. There's a reason pros use them.

 

[erayser]

Thinking about buying the 64 Audio N8 (9 driver) custom IEM’s but that $1700 price tag is steep. I can afford it but my Shure SE535 3 driver IEM’s sound very good except for the occlusion effect. Do all those extra drivers really make much difference in the sound? I have some hearing loss and don’t think I can even hear above 4kHz. Also can anybody here tell me the cost of having an audiologist make my ear molds?

I was fine with my 3 driver CIEM's... and to be honest, they worked perfectly fine on stage. I didn't gain much with my 64 Audio A12t's on stage, but I don't regret my purchase. Where they shine is at home listening to music, watching movies, workouts, and gaming. If you prefer hybrid customs like the N8's, the A4s seems to be a good option. My 3 driver customs isn't working on one side... most likely earwax damage, so I don't want to pay for another deep cleaning... and I've sent them in a few times. I'm leaning on getting the A4s for my main stage or backup CIEM's when the Black Friday sale starts. As I mentioned on my previous post, I like the screen mesh design on my A12t's. I don't see this design encountering earwax damage issues I had with my Alclairs... but it's still important to consistently clean and maintain them.

Audiologist in my area are around $50 to $100 like @Wild_Bill_57 said. I went with someone who did my impressions 6 years ago, but she moved to L.A. She is recommended by 64 Audio, and does mold impressions for well known artist. She remembered me... and she said she would drive down to San Diego for a house call. I ended up paying $125... but it worth it. She is really nice, and I know that she would do it 100% right the 1st try... and she knows what 64 Audio looks for on a good mold impression.

 

[Dvbssman]

Ear impressions typically cost $50-100 depending on the audiologist. Should take about 15-20 minutes. Make sure they go past the second bend in the ear canal. Also use a 1” bite block (trust me) this will keep your jaw in the right position and help the fit later.

Great recommendation. Thanks. I thought the cost would be much more.

 

[Dvbssman]

I was fine with my 3 driver CIEM's... and to be honest, they worked perfectly fine on stage. I didn't gain much with my 64 Audio A12t's on stage, but I don't regret my purchase. Where they shine is at home listening to music, watching movies, workouts, and gaming. If you prefer hybrid customs like the N8's, the A4s seems to be a good option. My 3 driver customs isn't working on one side... most likely earwax damage, so I don't want to pay for another deep cleaning... and I've sent them in a few times. I'm leaning on getting the A4s for my main stage or backup CIEM's when the Black Friday sale starts. As I mentioned on my previous post, I like the screen mesh design on my A12t's. I don't see this design encountering earwax damage issues I had with my Alclairs... but it's still important to consistently clean and maintain them.

Audiologist in my area are around $50 to $100 like @Wild_Bill_57 said. I went with someone who did my impressions 6 years ago, but she moved to L.A. She is recommended by 64 Audio, and does mold impressions for well known artist. She remembered me... and she said she would drive down to San Diego for a house call. I ended up paying $125... but it worth it. She is really nice, and I know that she would do it 100% right the 1st try... and she knows what 64 Audio looks for on a good mold impression.

Thanks so much! Yeah, I was thinking the A4’s too. Definitely want the new hybrid features. How much of a discount with the Black Friday sale? Not sure I want to deal with the occlusion effect until the end of the year.