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IEM Rig / Click

MclochNess

MclochNess

Nov 26, 2008
30
14
Davie, FL
#1
I've decided to take charge of constructing and implementing an in-ear monitor rig for the band I play with most often. We do not play gigs without full PA and a soundman, but often, we are at the mercy of a "set it and forget it" monitor mix, be it wedges, or in-ears. At the same time, I was hoping to use the opportunity to introduce using a click track, mostly to keep the drummer honest, as he has a tendency to get easily distracted. A stage mic wouldn't be such a bad thing either, for example, if one of the guitar players should be playing in the wrong key, changes in the set list, or some such thing.

I've got a cursory handle of the infrastructure and logistics, however, I could use some advice as to the "real world" application.

Anyone doing any/all the above?

Any preferences as far as setup? Apps?

Thank you...
 
#2
IMHO it works best if only the drummer uses a click. The exception is if another instrument needs the click to make an entrance.

Getting the drummer to use a click is another matter. Many drummers hate playing with a click. There is also the matter of whether your drummer can play well with a click. You may find it surprising, but not all drummers can.

You don't necessarily have to put the entire band in IEMs to use a click. The drummer could use a small mixer or headphone amp. A monitor mix from FOH can be sent to the drummer headphones with the click inserted into the mix. It's important to make sure the drummer an hear the drums well enough, or the will play even louder.

Something else to consider is how the click will be generated. It could be as simple as a metronome with a headphone out.


In regards to building an IEM system. A lot depends on the existing infrastructure. If you want something that will work with any mixer, you could build a dedicated monitor rack with a digital mixer and a split snake. The split snake splits each signal in two. One signal goes to the monitor mixer and the other signal goes to FOH. The idea is the band has complete control over the monitor mixer. The mixer is configured with a WiFi router and setup so each band member can control their own mix via a phone app. With training and practice the mixes tend to be very consistent and the system can be set up really fast if it is packaged well. @s0c9 has diagrams and guidance on building this sort of system.

As the saying goes, "There is more than one way to skin a cat." There are many variations on how you could put together an IEM system. I think you need to study some of the different ways to achieve your goal and then try to set a budget.
 
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#3
Wasnex said:
IMHO it works best if only the drummer uses a click. The exception is if another instrument needs the click to make an entrance.

Getting the drummer to use a click is another matter. Many drummers hate playing with a click. There is also the matter of whether your drummer can play well with a click. You may find it surprising, but not all drummers can.

You don't necessarily have to put the entire band in IEMs to use a click. The drummer could use a small mixer or headphone amp. A monitor mix from FOH can be sent to the drummer headphones with the click inserted into the mix. It's important to make sure the drummer an hear the drums well enough, or the will play even louder.

Something else to consider is how the click will be generated. It could be as simple as a metronome with a headphone out.


In regards to building an IEM system. A lot depends on the existing infrastructure. If you want something that will work with any mixer, you could build a dedicated monitor rack with a digital mixer and a split snake. The split snake splits each signal in two. One signal goes to the monitor mixer and the other signal goes to FOH. The idea is the band has complete control over the monitor mixer. The mixer is configured with a WiFi router and setup so each band member can control their own mix via a phone app. With training and practice the mixes tend to be very consistent and the system can be set up really fast if it is packaged well. @s0c9 has diagrams and guidance on building this sort of system.

As the saying goes, "There is more than one way to skin a cat." There are many variations on how you could put together an IEM system. I think you need to study some of the different ways to achieve your goal and then try to set a budget.
Click to expand...
Thank you…

I’ve got the “standard” Behringer XR-18 with a 16 channel splitter.

As for the click… I agree that the drummer is the only one that needs it. Thing is, he NEEDS it!

As for the band all using ears, the few times we do, it always comes off much better!

Thanks, again!
 
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#4
@MclochNess I came here for information on the same thing. I've been using my XR-18 to run our band's PA and IEM's. But we are starting to get better gigs that use their own FOH. My impression is that we can continue to use our own mics, plug them into the splitter, and just give the long snake to the FOH engineer, is that right?

I was looking at this splitter, would this be sufficient?
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com

SARMSS-16x310 - 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Splitter Snake Cable - 3' and 10' XLR trunks

SARMSS-16x310 16-channel XLR/TRS combo splitter snake with 3' and 10' trunks. Rack-mountable steel stage box for live sound installations.
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com www.seismicaudiospeakers.com
 
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#5
EricOnTheBass said:
@MclochNess I came here for information on the same thing. I've been using my XR-18 to run our band's PA and IEM's. But we are starting to get better gigs that use their own FOH. My impression is that we can continue to use our own mics, plug them into the splitter, and just give the long snake to the FOH engineer, is that right?

I was looking at this splitter, would this be sufficient?
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com

SARMSS-16x310 - 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Splitter Snake Cable - 3' and 10' XLR trunks

SARMSS-16x310 16-channel XLR/TRS combo splitter snake with 3' and 10' trunks. Rack-mountable steel stage box for live sound installations.
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com www.seismicaudiospeakers.com
Click to expand...
Yes. The short leg of the splitter is always hooked up to your mixer (for IEM’s) and everything always plugs into the splitter snakes box. If you need to feed the house, it’s simply a matter of uncoiling the long leg and handing it to the FOH guy. Done that 100’s of times..

Seismic ain’t top of the line, but way cheaper than a Whirlwind equivalent and there aren’t many vendors making them. I have the Seismic 16x5x15 splitter. Been using it for about 5 yrs without issue.
Rack mount it with the mixer. Treat the cables well - coil don’t twist - and look after it. Put the XLR ends in a bag, etc.
 
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#6
EricOnTheBass said:
@MclochNess I came here for information on the same thing. I've been using my XR-18 to run our band's PA and IEM's. But we are starting to get better gigs that use their own FOH. My impression is that we can continue to use our own mics, plug them into the splitter, and just give the long snake to the FOH engineer, is that right?

I was looking at this splitter, would this be sufficient?
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com

SARMSS-16x310 - 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Splitter Snake Cable - 3' and 10' XLR trunks

SARMSS-16x310 16-channel XLR/TRS combo splitter snake with 3' and 10' trunks. Rack-mountable steel stage box for live sound installations.
www.seismicaudiospeakers.com www.seismicaudiospeakers.com
Click to expand...
That’s the exact rig I’m using…

Top tip:
A few guys make replacement rack ears for the XR that allow you to recess it, route the cables through, and leave them plugged in with the lid on.
Hopefully, that will minimize the possibility of harming the Behringer inputs…
 

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#7
MclochNess said:
A stage mic wouldn't be such a bad thing either, for example, if one of the guitar players should be playing in the wrong key, changes in the set list, or some such thing.
Click to expand...
FYI, various companies make switches you can use for a talkback mic. IMHO a switch with a push-to-talk button, like a Pro Co Short Stop or Whirlwind MicMute PT would be best. If the button latches, people sometime forget to mute the mic when they are done talking.
 
#8
Wasnex said:
FYI, various companies make switches you can use for a talkback mic. IMHO a switch with a push-to-talk button, like a Pro Co Short Stop or Whirlwind MicMute PT would be best. If the button latches, people sometime forget to mute the mic when they are done talking.
Click to expand...
That’s my worry… I say enough off-color stuff into the mic when I KNOW it’s hot!!!
I’ve considered some of those options, but it’s sometimes enough to make sure the bass/guitar’s volume knob is turned up at the beginning of the song… I shudder to think of the potential mishaps!
 
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#10
MclochNess said:
I've decided to take charge of constructing and implementing an in-ear monitor rig for the band I play with most often. We do not play gigs without full PA and a soundman, but often, we are at the mercy of a "set it and forget it" monitor mix, be it wedges, or in-ears. At the same time, I was hoping to use the opportunity to introduce using a click track, mostly to keep the drummer honest, as he has a tendency to get easily distracted. A stage mic wouldn't be such a bad thing either, for example, if one of the guitar players should be playing in the wrong key, changes in the set list, or some such thing.

I've got a cursory handle of the infrastructure and logistics, however, I could use some advice as to the "real world" application.

Anyone doing any/all the above?

Any preferences as far as setup? Apps?

Thank you...
Click to expand...
I keep pushing for my band to settle into a routine with IEMs, but for us it comes down to the use case not being super well tailored for it. We play short sets (30-35m on average) and changeovers are usually stupidly short, so everything needs to stay simple. There's also some sentiment that we shouldn't depend on it as a crutch in case it fails, which is also reasonable given the very little time we have to do the thing.

That being said...
  • Give click to anyone who wants it.
  • Make sure everyone is comfortable setting up cables and operating Mixing Station (or your app of choice). It won't take long before you are down to just making body pack tweaks, but it is a routine shift.
  • If you have the channel space, a boundary mic somewhere on the stage can help with both talkback and not feeling isolated and "in your head" by adding a room blend.
  • Keep a Behringer P2 (or comparable), batteries, and a mic cable on hand (one set per member on ears) as a fall back if you are going wireless.
  • Keep a personal set of ear plugs and a tub of cheap ones in case you have to entirely caveman it one night.
  • Don't go cheap on the splitter - it is one more thing to break in the system.
  • Talk to the sound guy ahead of the time and make sure everyone is clear on who is bringing and doing what.
  • Set up a stage plot and channel listing to help with the previous point.

There's probably a few more, but those are just what's coming to mind right now.
 
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#12
One thing you will notice is on most smaller stages, you won't require everything be sent to your IEMs. I can't remember the last time I had guitars or drums in my IEM mix. Just my vocals, everyone elses vocals, and my own bass. The rooms are small enough and volume high enough that I can hear the guitar and drums well enough even with the IEMs in.

Never tried using a click though.
 
#14
As said above, not every drummer can play to a click. Honestly, I've known some very successful pros who just don't settle into it.

But, in my experience, the drummer is the *only* one who should have the click, apart from situational events like a solo intro. If *everyone* has the click and the drummer gets slightly behind or ahead, who does the band follow? Those of us from a background of blues, folk, jam band, etc., will likely instinctively follow the drummer. Those from a more structured background might follow the click. Train wreck ahead.

I've also known guitarists who play with emotion over drums, but get very precise and sterile over a click. Train that out of them? Maybe.
 
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#15
Yes, we play with IEMs, tracks and click/cue channels. It's harder than you think it is. The drummer runs an Ableton Live rig with backing tracks, click and cue. He uses a drum pad with pads set to "next marker", "previous marker", "start", and "stop" midi messages. I own the IEM rig, which consists of three ART S3 splitters (24 channels). One side of the split is wired to our X32 Rack, driving four Shure PSM-300 IEM transmitters connected to a Shure PA411 antenna combiner. Don't shortchange the antenna combiner, it's important. The X32 is connected to a WiFi router. Each musician uses their phone/tablet to connect to the X32 to manage their own IEM mix.

The click/cue tracks are not split to the FOH, they go only to our ears. The rest of the channels are split from the ART S3's with a 25 ft, 24-ch XLR patch snake. I play with the click in my ears, and if you're running tracks it's important everyone has the click because the band is tied to the track. It doesn't stop, it doesn't adjust for the singer's artistic interpretation of quiet sections, etc. Everyone has to be locked together.

Key takeways: LABEL EVERYTHING. Use a label maker to label the splitter inputs. Label the XLR plugs that go to FOH with what the channel contains, i.e. "Kick", "Snare", "Bass", "Lead Vox", etc. Send an isolated split to FOH so FOH doesn't have to worry about phantom power, etc. Make your setup as bulletproof as possible. Put it all in one rack if you can, and if you can't split out the wireless units from the rest into a second rack and use a labeled, easy-to-wire loom or patch snake to wire them together. Finally, make sure the drummer, or whoever is running the tracks, has a stop or kill midi message programmed so if somehow the band gets out of sync with the band/tracks you can kill the track and save the song.
 
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#16
BrianVengeance said:
I keep pushing for my band to settle into a routine with IEMs, but for us it comes down to the use case not being super well tailored for it. We play short sets (30-35m on average) and changeovers are usually stupidly short, so everything needs to stay simple. There's also some sentiment that we shouldn't depend on it as a crutch in case it fails, which is also reasonable given the very little time we have to do the thing.

That being said...
  • Give click to anyone who wants it.
  • Make sure everyone is comfortable setting up cables and operating Mixing Station (or your app of choice). It won't take long before you are down to just making body pack tweaks, but it is a routine shift.
  • If you have the channel space, a boundary mic somewhere on the stage can help with both talkback and not feeling isolated and "in your head" by adding a room blend.
  • Keep a Behringer P2 (or comparable), batteries, and a mic cable on hand (one set per member on ears) as a fall back if you are going wireless.
  • Keep a personal set of ear plugs and a tub of cheap ones in case you have to entirely caveman it one night.
  • Don't go cheap on the splitter - it is one more thing to break in the system.
  • Talk to the sound guy ahead of the time and make sure everyone is clear on who is bringing and doing what.
  • Set up a stage plot and channel listing to help with the previous point.

There's probably a few more, but those are just what's coming to mind right now.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
#18
sawzalot said:
Yes, we play with IEMs, tracks and click/cue channels. It's harder than you think it is. The drummer runs an Ableton Live rig with backing tracks, click and cue. He uses a drum pad with pads set to "next marker", "previous marker", "start", and "stop" midi messages. I own the IEM rig, which consists of three ART S3 splitters (24 channels). One side of the split is wired to our X32 Rack, driving four Shure PSM-300 IEM transmitters connected to a Shure PA411 antenna combiner. Don't shortchange the antenna combiner, it's important. The X32 is connected to a WiFi router. Each musician uses their phone/tablet to connect to the X32 to manage their own IEM mix.

The click/cue tracks are not split to the FOH, they go only to our ears. The rest of the channels are split from the ART S3's with a 25 ft, 24-ch XLR patch snake. I play with the click in my ears, and if you're running tracks it's important everyone has the click because the band is tied to the track. It doesn't stop, it doesn't adjust for the singer's artistic interpretation of quiet sections, etc. Everyone has to be locked together.

Key takeways: LABEL EVERYTHING. Use a label maker to label the splitter inputs. Label the XLR plugs that go to FOH with what the channel contains, i.e. "Kick", "Snare", "Bass", "Lead Vox", etc. Send an isolated split to FOH so FOH doesn't have to worry about phantom power, etc. Make your setup as bulletproof as possible. Put it all in one rack if you can, and if you can't split out the wireless units from the rest into a second rack and use a labeled, easy-to-wire loom or patch snake to wire them together. Finally, make sure the drummer, or whoever is running the tracks, has a stop or kill midi message programmed so if somehow the band gets out of sync with the band/tracks you can kill the track and save the song.
Click to expand...
Yowza!!! Thank you…
 
#19
TeaTime said:
As said above, not every drummer can play to a click. Honestly, I've known some very successful pros who just don't settle into it.

But, in my experience, the drummer is the *only* one who should have the click, apart from situational events like a solo intro. If *everyone* has the click and the drummer gets slightly behind or ahead, who does the band follow? Those of us from a background of blues, folk, jam band, etc., will likely instinctively follow the drummer. Those from a more structured background might follow the click. Train wreck ahead.

I've also known guitarists who play with emotion over drums, but get very precise and sterile over a click. Train that out of them? Maybe.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
#20
aglide said:
Tip for racking the XR18 with a splitter. I've seen people mount the XR "backwards" so that it's inputs are facing the same direction as the short tail of the splitter. That way they don't have to route the tail back to the front of the rack.

View attachment 7429260
Click to expand...
I tried that… the rack I’m using has a small access door at the back. I had to swap it around the few times I used the mixer to run sound for other gigs…
 

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