IEM Rig / Click

[el murdoque]

My bands' rack looks like yours, only we have the IEM transmitters and a 19" battery charger on top of that.

Real world application is pretty nice. We run a silent stage. Drums are electric and guitars use modelers, no cabinet in sight.
FOH everywhere loves us, because our sound pretty much works right out of the box. Just EQ a bit to taste, slap a notch filter on the resonant frequencies and set the gain on the mics for the singers.

Everyone in the band sets their own mix via phone/tablet.

 

[MclochNess]

Real world application for me is just getting a AUX drop to my XVive IEM from the sound guy. Then a regular finger up/down sound check.

My church gig has the click and talkback, but I’m just a bass player, so can’t help you there.

Good luck.

That’s where we are, and trying to get away from…

I acknowledge that the sound guy has their hands full with FOH, and that should be the focus!
Also, I feel, in most situations, you have two, possibly three, requests for adjustments after soundcheck, before you get the “eye roll”…

 

[s0c9]

That’s where we are, and trying to get away from…

I acknowledge that the sound guy has their hands full with FOH, and that should be the focus!
Also, I feel, in most situations, you have two, possibly three, requests for adjustments after soundcheck, before you get the “eye roll”…

Even with “pro” musicians, there is a tendency to play harder or adjust settings during a gig, which can change people’s mix that was set during sound check. With FOH running ur mix, there’ll be frantic hand signals to FOH to make adjustments- after the guitar takes a lead and hits the boost pedal not tested during sound check! YMMV

 

[s0c9]

Yes, we play with IEMs, tracks and click/cue channels. It's harder than you think it is. The drummer runs an Ableton Live rig with backing tracks, click and cue. He uses a drum pad with pads set to "next marker", "previous marker", "start", and "stop" midi messages. I own the IEM rig, which consists of three ART S3 splitters (24 channels). One side of the split is wired to our X32 Rack, driving four Shure PSM-300 IEM transmitters connected to a Shure PA411 antenna combiner. Don't shortchange the antenna combiner, it's important. The X32 is connected to a WiFi router. Each musician uses their phone/tablet to connect to the X32 to manage their own IEM mix.

The click/cue tracks are not split to the FOH, they go only to our ears. The rest of the channels are split from the ART S3's with a 25 ft, 24-ch XLR patch snake. I play with the click in my ears, and if you're running tracks it's important everyone has the click because the band is tied to the track. It doesn't stop, it doesn't adjust for the singer's artistic interpretation of quiet sections, etc. Everyone has to be locked together.

Key takeways: LABEL EVERYTHING. Use a label maker to label the splitter inputs. Label the XLR plugs that go to FOH with what the channel contains, i.e. "Kick", "Snare", "Bass", "Lead Vox", etc. Send an isolated split to FOH so FOH doesn't have to worry about phantom power, etc. Make your setup as bulletproof as possible. Put it all in one rack if you can, and if you can't split out the wireless units from the rest into a second rack and use a labeled, easy-to-wire loom or patch snake to wire them together. Finally, make sure the drummer, or whoever is running the tracks, has a stop or kill midi message programmed so if somehow the band gets out of sync with the band/tracks you can kill the track and save the song.

Very similar to the configuration my tribute band uses but with a Ui24R and different IEM transmitters in the rack.
Since I play in other bands, my rig sits behind me. NO amp. Portable. Tube DI from pedalboard to splitter box.
AUX feed via XLR back to MY OWN wireless IEM rig (Mipro 909).
That gives me full control of my mix.
Same level of control with my other bands, mixing IEM’s via tablet.

 

[MclochNess]

My bands' rack looks like yours, only we have the IEM transmitters and a 19" battery charger on top of that.

Real world application is pretty nice. We run a silent stage. Drums are electric and guitars use modelers, no cabinet in sight.
FOH everywhere loves us, because our sound pretty much works right out of the box. Just EQ a bit to taste, slap a notch filter on the resonant frequencies and set the gain on the mics for the singers.

Everyone in the band sets their own mix via phone/tablet.

Awesome!

 

[IanStephenson]

@MclochNess I came here for information on the same thing. I've been using my XR-18 to run our band's PA and IEM's. But we are starting to get better gigs that use their own FOH. My impression is that we can continue to use our own mics, plug them into the splitter, and just give the long snake to the FOH engineer, is that right?

I was looking at this splitter, would this be sufficient?

SARMSS-16x310 - 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Splitter Snake Cable - 3' and 10' XLR trunks

SARMSS-16x310 16-channel XLR/TRS combo splitter snake with 3' and 10' trunks. Rack-mountable steel stage box for live sound installations.

www.seismicaudiospeakers.com

That will work, but it's not strictly 100% correct, as it's just splitting the signal by joining the appropriate wires together. Ideally you want the signal to be transformer isolated, so that the signals are correctly impedance matched, and the the two desks are isolated from each other. This becomes essential of phantom power is in the mix, as you don't want phantom power from the main desk feeding into your IEM desk, or worse turning on phantom power on both desks.

A transformer isolated splitter is kind of like a whole load of DI boxes, and so the main desk is completely isolated from your equipment.

The behringer MS8000 boxes are super cheap, and have 8 transformer balanced splits. The expensive bit is that you then have to add a snake and the internal XLR cables, which cost me slightly more than the splitter. For my band I built a right with a single 8 channel splitter, which was enough to cover everything except drums. If we need drums in the montitor we can add an extra mic separate to the FOH drum mics and run that without a split, by strongly no one on stage has ever said they can't hear the drums... We feed clicks and tracks into another 4 tracks on the XR18 (via USB), and use main outs to send the track to FOH.

 

[IanStephenson]

As suggested the XR18 needs recessed track ears. There are a few people selling them on eBay. Some are nice metal ones, but some are just 3D printed. If you have access to 3D printer, you can download the designs from thingiverse and print them yourself. I printed mine in regular PLA, and while they aren't as sturdy as they could be they've worked 100% and cost me $5 in filament - the same ones that people are selling for $40.

XR18 ears

 

[dbsfgyd1]

FYI, various companies make switches you can use for a talkback mic. IMHO a switch with a push-to-talk button, like a Pro Co Short Stop or Whirlwind MicMute PT would be best. If the button latches, people sometime forget to mute the mic when they are done talking.

Brother, that would be me leaving it on then letting it fly at the first mistake I made…Lol….,

 

[EricOnTheBass]

That will work, but it's not strictly 100% correct, as it's just splitting the signal by joining the appropriate wires together. Ideally you want the signal to be transformer isolated, so that the signals are correctly impedance matched, and the the two desks are isolated from each other. This becomes essential of phantom power is in the mix, as you don't want phantom power from the main desk feeding into your IEM desk, or worse turning on phantom power on both desks.

A transformer isolated splitter is kind of like a whole load of DI boxes, and so the main desk is completely isolated from your equipment.

The behringer MS8000 boxes are super cheap, and have 8 transformer balanced splits. The expensive bit is that you then have to add a snake and the internal XLR cables, which cost me slightly more than the splitter. For my band I built a right with a single 8 channel splitter, which was enough to cover everything except drums. If we need drums in the montitor we can add an extra mic separate to the FOH drum mics and run that without a split, by strongly no one on stage has ever said they can't hear the drums... We feed clicks and tracks into another 4 tracks on the XR18 (via USB), and use main outs to send the track to FOH.

I see, thanks for the info. So with the MS8000, if I need phantom power for a mic, I would need to provide it from my XR18, is that right?

As suggested the XR18 needs recessed track ears. There are a few people selling them on eBay. Some are nice metal ones, but some are just 3D printed. If you have access to 3D printer, you can download the designs from thingiverse and print them yourself. I printed mine in regular PLA, and while they aren't as sturdy as they could be they've worked 100% and cost me $5 in filament - the same ones that people are selling for $40.

XR18 ears

I ordered some 3D-printed ones from Etsy for $20!

 

[IanStephenson]

I see, thanks for the info. So with the MS8000, if I need phantom power for a mic, I would need to provide it from my XR18, is that right?

Basically yes.

Each input on the MS8000 splits in two. One output is directly connected, passes phantom power and normally you would connect that to your own mixer. The other goes through a transformer to the FOH mixer and blocks phantom power. You could wire them the other way round, in which case FOH would provide power if needed, but generally you want to "own" everything your side of the split, and you know which (if any) mic's you want to send phantom power to, so having your own desk provide power means its set up the same every time.

The only reason I can see to do it the other way round is if you're expecting FOH to provide all the mics and di boxes, in which case they can send power where they need to (because they know where it needs to go) and your mixer is isolated. But If you're looking to set up an IEM rig you probably have all your own stuff.

 

[MclochNess]

That will work, but it's not strictly 100% correct, as it's just splitting the signal by joining the appropriate wires together. Ideally you want the signal to be transformer isolated, so that the signals are correctly impedance matched, and the the two desks are isolated from each other. This becomes essential of phantom power is in the mix, as you don't want phantom power from the main desk feeding into your IEM desk, or worse turning on phantom power on both desks.

A transformer isolated splitter is kind of like a whole load of DI boxes, and so the main desk is completely isolated from your equipment.

The behringer MS8000 boxes are super cheap, and have 8 transformer balanced splits. The expensive bit is that you then have to add a snake and the internal XLR cables, which cost me slightly more than the splitter. For my band I built a right with a single 8 channel splitter, which was enough to cover everything except drums. If we need drums in the montitor we can add an extra mic separate to the FOH drum mics and run that without a split, by strongly no one on stage has ever said they can't hear the drums... We feed clicks and tracks into another 4 tracks on the XR18 (via USB), and use main outs to send the track to FOH.

Thanks for the info…

 

[Mike Caldwell]

As mentioned if you carry all of your input sources then you can have your side of the split all trimmed out and plug and play.

That said if you do carry of your input sources get good reliable stuff and most certainly good wireless microphones, no sound provider wants to deal with a bands crap wireless mic or instrument system causing issues, I have swapped in my wireless mics on a few occasions. I don't care that maybe a lesser quality wireless IEM system is causing issues on your end but I don't want people looking at me when wireless mics cut out or other inputs.

Also when you put a system together make sure you know everything about it and how to trouble shoot it when under pressure. If time allows I'll jump in and help, if it's a multi act fast turn over gig maybe not so much.

Case in point, few years ago, band was have all kind of IEM issues with their rig, line check was fine to FOH and I could see all the inputs hitting their mixer, all were complaining about their mix or not getting anything while everyone was poking at the mixer at that point they were past the go time, told them we got to go, turned up a some inputs in the wedges that were still connected and they counted off the first song, actually their set sounded good.

 

[Solipsistik]

Check this thing out for the IEM amp:

HP-1 Battery-Powered Clip-On Headphone Amplifier | ART Pro Audio

The HP-1 is a compact, battery-powered headphone amplifier for players who prefer a wired connection for their in-ear monitors.

artproaudio.com

I'm thinking of ordering one up.

 

[s0c9]

Check this thing out for the IEM amp:

HP-1 Battery-Powered Clip-On Headphone Amplifier | ART Pro Audio

The HP-1 is a compact, battery-powered headphone amplifier for players who prefer a wired connection for their in-ear monitors.

artproaudio.com

I'm thinking of ordering one up.

You can get these P2 style devices on Amazon all day long. The original Behringer version is ~$40.
There are chinese knock-offs that work just as well..
I have a couple of these ~$27? Work fine.. use them as spares for other band members and as a backup in case my wireless IEM fails.

https://www.amazon.com/Bolanle-P2-Amplifier-Controller-Keyboardists/dp/B0CL675NB5

 

[Mike Caldwell]

You can get these P2 style devices on Amazon all day long. The original Behringer version is ~$40.
There are chinese knock-offs that work just as well..
I have a couple of these ~$27? Work fine.. use them as spares for other band members and as a backup in case my wireless IEM fails.

https://www.amazon.com/Bolanle-P2-Amplifier-Controller-Keyboardists/dp/B0CL675NB5

Actually the Behringer is the original knock off of the Fischer Ear Stick!

 

[s0c9]

Actually the Behringer is the original knock off of the Fischer Ear Stick!

Yeah, I know. But there are much cheaper equivalents available for the "budget conscious" folks

 

[Bullitt5135]

Our dummer uses a Invalid Link Removed pedal switch. It's default setting is always-on talkback so he can cue us without the audience hearing. When the switch is pressed, he can talk to the audience – which is helpful during guitar changes or when fixing tech problems onstage. For the couple of gigs we've had a sub drummer, I use the switch and call the cues.

Our drummer uses a click between songs... just 4-8 beats to remind himself of the correct tempo before counting us in. For extended intros without drums, he'll keep the click running a bit to keep us honest. Leaving the click on throughout every song hasn't worked for us, but the current system works well.

I'll probably add an extra iPad to my rig. Even though everyone in the band has one, there are times when they need an IEM adjustment but have lost connection switching over from their lyrics/charts. It might be helpful to just keep one set on AUX mixes in case anyone needs to get to it quickly.