• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

If there a reason we don't get Q adjustment on amps

FWIW, the Bergantino B|Amp and Super Pre offer something of a compromise between fully PEQ and Low Mid High tone controls. I use both and they work very well. 90% of the time I’m direct to FOH via the Suer Pre and can use the full PEQ on my channel in the mixer if I need to…
 
Didn't read all posts but I would think that someone has already mentioned the Empress Para EQ mkll Deluxe.
It seems to have what you are asking for. I have one but use it sparingly. Mostly for the HPF. It's a great pedal for getting outta trouble, unless ya don't know how to use it and then it could get you into trouble. Enjoy!
 
There are too many players who can’t cope with anything beyond bass and treble controls, and are too contrarian to bother to learn. And you just know that they’re the ones who refuse to use pedals…EQ of any type, let alone others

I'm not replying to this post as much as many of the similar comments but this one seemed a good example. Yes all this for sure. Some players can barely use basic 4 band EQ. How often do you see pix online of some guy with EQ on an amp that make no sense at all for the rest of the rig, and he's talking about buying new gear because of some complaint about the tone.

I'm a mountain biker and its very similar with modern suspension adjustments. Modern suspension for bikes is amazingly powerful. The vast majority of riders never figure out really what the knobs do. Many of my friends never ever touch the extensive adjustment knobs after the bike is handed to them at the shop. Often riders will complain about their shock performance but never have learned or tried to dial it in really properly. Then they 'upgrade' to a more expensive one, likely with MORE adjustment controls, which they also don't figure out. If they happen to luck into the 'base recommended settings' being good for them they'll declare it "AWESOME" if not they'll declare it "SUCK". Meanwhile their original shock was probably a perfectly excellent unit that just needed proper dialing in.

I think same exact thing happens with amps & pedals...
 
I bought a Rocktron Voodu Valve guitar preamp around 2000. The EQ section is base on 3-band full parametric EQ. I had a very hard time getting a good sound out of it. Until pandemic, when I stopped working for 2 months and decided to commit to learn that EQ.

I'm familiar with parametric EQ as a long time Protools user with many EQ plugins. EQing a recorded sound is easier than starting from scratch finding EQ frequencies and Qs for low, middle and high (at least on guitar amps). @agedhorse and other amp designers are way better doing so than the majority of bass players, except maybe some people here as I can see.

Short story, I'm happy that full Q is not part of the base product as I can dial a good sound relatively easy (and it makes the base product cheaper). If I need additional controls, that's what outboard stuff exists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: agedhorse
I'm in the market for an amp and like that some are now offering sweepable mids, but why not take the next step and go to a fully parametric midrange ?

An ideal eq for me would be

Hi pass filters
Lows center point
Lows volume
Mids volume
Mids frequency
Mids Q
Highs volume
Highs filter frequency (high shelf)
Low pass filter with resonace control (optional)

But at the very least I'd like full control over mids frequency width and that seems unheard of. It's just a basic parametric eq section. It csnr be overly difficult to incorporate...
I personally favor simplicity over features/flexibility....much more than 5-6 knobs is just too much for me. This is why I like the D800, I can plug in and turn one knob, get my sound and go. I find utilizing the tone knob, active eq or right hand placement on the bass is easier to make small adjustments as i go. I look at some of these amps with what seems like a bunch of knobs and switches and I get vertigo:).
 
Didn't read all posts but I would think that someone has already mentioned the Empress Para EQ mkll Deluxe.
It seems to have what you are asking for. I have one but use it sparingly. Mostly for the HPF. It's a great pedal for getting outta trouble, unless ya don't know how to use it and then it could get you into trouble. Enjoy!

I mentioned the Empress Para EQ in post #44 on page 3.
Not the mkll Deluxe, but the original one.

Mike
 
I personally favor simplicity over features/flexibility....much more than 5-6 knobs is just too much for me. This is why I like the D800, I can plug in and turn one knob, get my sound and go. I find utilizing the tone knob, active eq or right hand placement on the bass is easier to make small adjustments as i go. I look at some of these amps with what seems like a bunch of knobs and switches and I get vertigo:).
Totally understandable, but sometimes on some amps I find I cannot adequately adjust a freq that I wish to either attenuate or boost. Case in point the Ampeg RB 112 combo: it sounds great, but my tone leads with 1.6 - 1.9k, so to feature that freq to my personal spec I pop a semi-parametric into the effects loop. Not a problem with my Walkabout (3-band semi-peq)
 
FWIW the B|Amp isn't fully variable Q, just a choice of wide, medium or narrow.
It's a choice I've never felt compelled to exercise, so I'm fine with it being buried away on Screen 6 of Program Mode.
There's also a notch filter & HPF, which I would turn to first when my double bass starts feeding back. (Assuming there's no option to relocate the speaker or hire a different drummer.)
 
IMO it comes down to function. Been mentioned previously in this thread, but bears repeating: typically, amps are used in live environments*. In live environments, some measure of simplicity is a great thing. A graphic EQ, while having lots of sliders, is actually very simple. What you see is how it sounds. With adjustable Q, that goes by the wayside. I know I’ve never been wanting of more adjustability onstage than what I have with the graphic EQ and the contour controls; they are entirely sufficient for live work.


*back when I was involved in recording, while the might have been a bass amp for the room there was nearly always a direct signal to the board and to tape.
 
The Q on the Subway amps are around 2 which is a bandwidth of ~0.7 octaves, maybe a little more.

Q in practice is not a fixed number but does vary a little with frequency, it depends on the particular circuit being used.

I have a WD-800 after 55 years of being a bassist, this is the first time I’ve heard of “Q” so please forgive my ignorance. On my WD-800 and I really struggle to get 100% of what I’m looking for, specifically the higher mids being hard to control.

So how do I find Q? Is there a Q on each Parametric EQ? I find when the Parametric EQ is set to zero cut/boost the sound is very bright and very dominant.

Please advise. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
I have a WD-800 after 55 years of being a bassist, this is the first time I’ve heard of “Q” so please forgive my ignorance. On my WD-800 and I really struggle to get 100% of what I’m looking for, specifically the higher mids being hard to control.

So how do I find Q? Is there a Q on each Parametric EQ? I find when the Parametric EQ is set to zero cut/boost the sound is very bright and very dominant.

Please advise. Thanks.
The Q is built into the filter, it’s not adjustable.

Have you tried boosting the middle band to the 3:00 position and sweeping the freq. control so that you can identify what you don’t like and then remove (just a little bit goes a long way)?
 
There are too many players who can’t cope with anything beyond bass and treble controls, and are too contrarian to bother to learn. And you just know that they’re the ones who refuse to use pedals…EQ of any type, let alone others[/QU
There are too many players who can’t cope with anything beyond bass and treble controls, and are too contrarian to bother to learn. And you just know that they’re the ones who refuse to use pedals…EQ of any type, let alone others
fine. your opinion.
 
In idiot terms, what does Q adjustment do? Sounds like a resonance control or something.
The user guide for my Fishman Dual Parametric DI—with two identical bands—has easy-to-understand descriptions of how this all works. The Octave knob controls the Q. See the attached PDF below.

BTW, I have two of the devices, one of which doesn’t work (I think it’s a power-supply issue, but I don’t know anyone who can look at it). The DI was discontinued more than 20 years ago, and Fishman can provide no information. Ho-hum…
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: MarshallAC50Stack
My two cents worth based on decades of talking to design engineers from many companies while attending AES conventions as a mastering engineer. With the exception of boutique and hi-end manufacturers, products are designed to meet a price point, so a final compromise has to be reached between build/sound quality and features. I think most mid-level and below manufacturers realize that 90%+ of their customer base don’t even understand the basics of filters, much less getting into QS and hinge points, slopes etc. So the price point is set, you’ve designed the piece as good as it can be to meet that, now will YOU decide to compromise on something else in order to add features that 10% or less of your base even understands? No. A good manufacturer would first make the power section as robust and good sounding as possible, and then design a quality bare-bones preamp to match it and still meet the price point. What normally happens is a compromise between those two.
The other way to do it is to design the best power amp and preamp possible, with channel switching and full featured filter sections as you describe, and then price it accordingly. In which case you have a piece that 5% or less of the market can afford or understand.
My final opinion, based on being a mastering engineer and electronics engineer, is the last thing you want is to introduce crappy filtering into your signal chain. You do not want 2 cent filters just to have them, which is what would happen on affordable and budget amps if elaborate filtering was included. This is why God created outboard eqs and preamps.
 
The Q is built into the filter, it’s not adjustable.

Have you tried boosting the middle band to the 3:00 position and sweeping the freq. control so that you can identify what you don’t like and then remove (just a little bit goes a long way)?

Thanks, I’ll give that a shot. I understand the basics of a parametric EQs from owning EQ Eden and Peavey amps. The specifics of each brand is another thing altogether.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Greatly appreciated. .
 
My two cents worth based on decades of talking to design engineers from many companies while attending AES conventions as a mastering engineer. With the exception of boutique and hi-end manufacturers, products are designed to meet a price point, so a final compromise has to be reached between build/sound quality and features. I think most mid-level and below manufacturers realize that 90%+ of their customer base don’t even understand the basics of filters, much less getting into QS and hinge points, slopes etc. So the price point is set, you’ve designed the piece as good as it can be to meet that, now will YOU decide to compromise on something else in order to add features that 10% or less of your base even understands? No. A good manufacturer would first make the power section as robust and good sounding as possible, and then design a quality bare-bones preamp to match it and still meet the price point. What normally happens is a compromise between those two.
The other way to do it is to design the best power amp and preamp possible, with channel switching and full featured filter sections as you describe, and then price it accordingly. In which case you have a piece that 5% or less of the market can afford or understand.
My final opinion, based on being a mastering engineer and electronics engineer, is the last thing you want is to introduce crappy filtering into your signal chain. You do not want 2 cent filters just to have them, which is what would happen on affordable and budget amps if elaborate filtering was included. This is why God created outboard eqs and preamps.

Good post! A very accurate assessment. Personally, I’m still trying to understand the volume and tone controls on a PB, a 45 year work in progress..LOL!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarshallAC50Stack