If tone really is in the fingers...

[mbell75]

It does in my book. That price was completely accurate for the time period and the condition of the instrument.

Back in the day, a '72 jazz wasn't a unicorn, it was just a plain ole, off-the-rack "jazz".

A dime a dozen instrument - this one sounds like it was no "prize" either. It came "complete" with no case, and a cigarette burn on the neck.

He went on to become a bass legend with it and still calls it his number one to this day. So yeah... there's that.

Uh, Geddy was a bass legend before he started playing that '72 Fender lol. Maybe you're not familiar with pre Moving Pictures Rush? Oh, and he only played the '72 on Tom Sawyer. The rest of the album is the Ric. Then he used the Wal from 85-93. He didn't start really using that Jazz until late into his career. He didn't "go on to become a bass legend" after he started playing that Jazz bass, nice try though

 

[stingray69]

Uh, Geddy was a bass legend before he started playing that '72 Fender lol.

Agreed. My post has nothing to due about Geddy's success.

I am however, suggesting that your claim regarding a beat up, cigarette burned neck, '72 Jazz purchased circa 1980 was a "unicorn" bass?

 

[stingray69]

Uh, Geddy was a bass legend before he started playing that '72 Fender lol. Maybe you're not familiar with pre Moving Pictures Rush? Oh, and he only played the '72 on Tom Sawyer. The rest of the album is the Ric. Then he used the Wal from 85-93. He didn't start really using that Jazz until late into his career. He didn't "go on to become a bass legend" after he started playing that Jazz bass, nice try though

You wanted examples of Pros using "less than expensive" instruments and I gave you one. But you seem very defensive to have received what you asked for - strange thread indeed.

I'll leave you to it...

Peace.

 

[mbell75]

Agreed. My post has nothing to due about Geddy's success.

I am however, suggesting that your claim regarding a beat up, cigarette burned neck, '72 Jazz purchased circa 1980 was a "unicorn" bass?

A beat up '72 Jazz that him and his bass tech "tweaked". You think thats an off the rack '72 Fender Jazz? lol. Watch the interview where he talks about it. He was shocked the guy only wanted $200 for it. Look up how much a used '72 Fender Jazz was going for back then, it sure as hell wasn't $200. So going back to my original point. Just because some idiot in a pawn shop didn't know how to price a '72 Fender Jazz doesn't make it a cheap bass. You make it sound like he picked up a Squier and changed the world with it. No one considers a '72 Fender Jazz a "cheap" bass.

 

[JimmyM]

Agreed. My post has nothing to due about Geddy's success.

I am however, suggesting that your claim regarding a beat up, cigarette burned neck, '72 Jazz purchased circa 1980 was a "unicorn" bass?

It wasn't in 1980 But mbell is right that it's been tweaked. The Custom Shop did a lot of work on that bass, culminating in a new neck that he used on the last couple tours.

 

[stingray69]

A beat up '72 Jazz that him and his bass tech "tweaked". You think thats an off the rack '72 Fender Jazz? lol. Watch the interview where he talks about it. He was shocked the guy only wanted $200 for it. Look up how much a used '72 Fender Jazz was going for back then, it sure as hell wasn't $200.

It wasn't in 1980 But mbell is right that it's been tweaked. The Custom Shop did a lot of work on that bass, culminating in a new neck that he used on the last couple tours.

Curious what year was it purchased then?

His interview said he purchased it and just sat on it - literally stowed it away & did nothing with it for a few years until pulling it out for the Moving Pictures album in 1980.

So I am assuming he bought this '72 jazz even earlier than 1980.

Perhaps circa 76-78? To account for the "few years" he stashed it away.

I'm failing to see the "unicorn" story in this pawn shop beater. Sounds to me the pawn shop may have priced it to move. I'm sure they didn't want to sit on this neglected, burned instrument forevermore in their shop. But "unicorn" find of a burned, beat up '72 jazz for $200 while you are IN the mid-seventies? Hardly.

And yes, when you tour & play as hard as Geddy - of course you're gonna need a new neck eventually and some maintenance along the way. The new neck came much later (as you say, the last couple of tours).

 

[JimmyM]

Curious what year was it purchased then?

I meant that it wasn't a unicorn at $200 in 1980. Today it would be.

 

[stingray69]

I meant that it wasn't a unicorn at $200 in 1980. Today it would be.

Sorry, my bad.

Absolutely it would be.

 

[mbell75]

I meant that it wasn't a unicorn at $200 in 1980. Today it would be.

Absolutely it would be.

Ok, I didn't want to have to break this down but I will. A Fender Jazz bass in 1972 retailed for $374, so a used one about 5 years later for $200 was around half price off retail. A 2014 AM Pro Jazz bass retailed for $1500. A quick search on Reverb shows the cheapest AM Pro Jazz going for $1275, and thats a 2012. Finding a 2014 Fender AM Pro Jazz for $750 would be like Geddy finding a '72 Fender Jazz for $200, it doesn't happen often at all. Unless of course you know where we can find 2014 AM Pros for $750?

 

[gln1955]

Ok, I didn't want to have to break this down but I will. A Fender Jazz bass in 1972 retailed for $374, so a used one about 5 years later for $200 was around half price off retail. A 2014 AM Pro Jazz bass retailed for $1500. A quick search on Reverb shows the cheapest AM Pro Jazz going for $1275, and thats a 2012. Finding a 2014 Fender AM Pro Jazz for $750 would be like Geddy finding a '72 Fender Jazz for $200, it doesn't happen often at all. Unless of course you know where we can find 2014 AM Pros for $750?

Sorry, extrapolating prices 40 years is just pointless.

 

[stingray69]

A quick search of what's currently on Reverb at the moment hardly sets the "fair market value" of anything. You may as well have quoted E-bay - where you can sometimes find Squier basses listed for $3,000.00 dollars.

In a nutshell - I do appreciate all your price data collecting from the 70's era, it truly is informative.

It also reinforces the fact that Geddy likely paid, perhaps, just a little too much for his burned, beater jazz back in the '70's.

Seriously, I'm done with this discussion. It's been fun.

 

[FRoss6788]

It appears that you just like to argue

 

[DanGroove]

Uh, Geddy was a bass legend before he started playing that '72 Fender lol. Maybe you're not familiar with pre Moving Pictures Rush? Oh, and he only played the '72 on Tom Sawyer. The rest of the album is the Ric. Then he used the Wal from 85-93. He didn't start really using that Jazz until late into his career. He didn't "go on to become a bass legend" after he started playing that Jazz bass, nice try though

It reads like you think his point about the $200 in a pawn shop price being pretty normal for that time is invalidated by him missing the mark on when Geddy earned his fame, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, $200 for a USA Jazz in a pawnshop pre 1980 (we know he had it sometime prior to 80 since that was the first year he used it to record for an album) is the equivalent of $800 in a pawn shop for a USA Jazz today when you factor in inflation.

 

[DanGroove]

Ok, I didn't want to have to break this down but I will. A Fender Jazz bass in 1972 retailed for $374, so a used one about 5 years later for $200 was around half price off retail. A 2014 AM Pro Jazz bass retailed for $1500. A quick search on Reverb shows the cheapest AM Pro Jazz going for $1275, and thats a 2012. Finding a 2014 Fender AM Pro Jazz for $750 would be like Geddy finding a '72 Fender Jazz for $200, it doesn't happen often at all. Unless of course you know where we can find 2014 AM Pros for $750?

I see recent (2000-current) used American jazzes around $800 quite often on Craigslist and in pawn shops. I had a 2005 in good condition listed for $750 for 6 months and couldn't get a buyer.

 

[SteveCS]

Here's pause for thought...
What if
...Until you have sufficiently developed technique to know that tone is in the fingers you will never believe it?
...That developed technique is what allows you to objectively discern the various qualities in an instrument that make it respond satisfactorily or otherwise to your hands?

The answer lies in the woodshed...

 

[RustyAxe]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

Put two identical basses/rigs in the hands of two different bassists. Have them play the same riffs. Their tone will NOT be the same..

 

[DanGroove]

As others have said, the problem lies in taking a general idea and treating as a hard and fast absolute rule. "Tone is in the fingers = nothing but the skill of the player has any effect on tone". Tone is a lot of things, but skill/technique of the player has a massive impact and that is what is meant when folks say "Tone is in the fingers". Buying a better instrument won't fix or make up for bad form. But to suggest tone is 100% in the fingers and nothing else is ridiculous. Obviously different pickups, hardware, strings, construction etc effect the tone of an instrument in a large way also. None of those will make a poor player sound good though.

Also, I did in fact experience a more expensive instrument making me a better player - in a way. A super cheap Banjo is a nightmare. It is frustrating to play and rarely stays in tune for long. I had given up on one completely, but in a last ditch effort I picked up a Deering Goodtime 2, which at around $550 is probably the best banjo you can find under $1200, possibly much more. I figured I could return it within 30 days if it still didn't work out. But it with it no longer frustrating me on mechanical levels, I was able to put in the time and learn. Of course it is the practice that made me better, but it was the removal of severely discouraging factors that helped me put in the time.

 

[JimmyM]

Ok, I didn't want to have to break this down but I will. A Fender Jazz bass in 1972 retailed for $374, so a used one about 5 years later for $200 was around half price off retail. A 2014 AM Pro Jazz bass retailed for $1500. A quick search on Reverb shows the cheapest AM Pro Jazz going for $1275, and thats a 2012. Finding a 2014 Fender AM Pro Jazz for $750 would be like Geddy finding a '72 Fender Jazz for $200, it doesn't happen often at all. Unless of course you know where we can find 2014 AM Pros for $750?

Your first mistake is assuming the laws of supply and demand should be based on a strict interpretation of what economists say your money is worth today by the standards of a previous year. Nobody cares about that. It's all about what the market will bear. And if they sell at those prices, then that's what the market will bear. That's just how it is.

Your second mistake is caring. Righteous indignation won't change it. Buy what you're comfortable with and be happy for it. We all have to live within our means.

 

[bucephylus]

Ok, I didn't want to have to break this down but I will. A Fender Jazz bass in 1972 retailed for $374, so a used one about 5 years later for $200 was around half price off retail. A 2014 AM Pro Jazz bass retailed for $1500. A quick search on Reverb shows the cheapest AM Pro Jazz going for $1275, and thats a 2012. Finding a 2014 Fender AM Pro Jazz for $750 would be like Geddy finding a '72 Fender Jazz for $200, it doesn't happen often at all. Unless of course you know where we can find 2014 AM Pros for $750?

Where to start?

You seem to be applying a false equivalence based on the current markets. Which is perhaps forgivable, if you were trying to understand a market that you had no experience with. Better that you ask folks who were operating back then.

I bought two used Jazz Basses in 1987. One was my '62, which needed some work and cost me $275. The others was a pretty much mint 1972, which cost me $225. In 1988, I bought a '65 P Bass for $275, that I flipped the next year for $900.

The market back then was pre-internet. Sellers, particularly in rural areas, had a demand issue for the supply-demand pricing. It was a soft market. Collectors were already valuing the pre-CBS stuff; but the post CBS stuff was kind of viewed like the Mexican stuff is today.

Guess you had to be there. Today's scene is completely different.

 

[Mark76]

Tone may be in the fingers, but groove is in the heart and Rock 'n' Roll is in the soul of everyone