If tone really is in the fingers...

[CaseyVancouver]

I've seen plenty of inexpensive basses and guitars played by working pros. Sire, Ibanez and cheap imports from years past. The fanciest instruments I've seen were played by amateurs with high paying jobs not in music.

True, I've noticed it too.
But then there are some awesome exceptions. Like Stanley Clarke.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

The quality of your equipment gives you POTENTAL to express. Fingers fullfill (or don't) that potential.
That's why mediocre players sound the same on every instrument.
Why do top players sound similar on every instrument? Because they are quick to adopt. Taking lousy instrument in their hands, it takes them seconds to find that one thing that can sound good (fullfilling miserable potential). A listener is fooled, thinking that instrument is as good as better one.
Why top cats never stick with that lousy instrument? Because they always expand and grow, so they need instrument bigger then they are.

Well said!

 

[drumvsbass]

This is an old and tired argument. It's 2019, there are PLENTY of $300 guitars and basses that look great and play incredibly well. Even the ones who have artist models made both in Mexico (or overseas) and the US, they only play the expensive US made ones if they play them. If tone is in the fingers, why not rock that Squier version?

For the average everyday gig, a resounding yes. I would say in Fender land, don't spend more than $1000 on a P-Bass. I have two of those 'Mexi-artist' models myself (DD Ramone, Nate Mendel). I have never been on a 'PAYING' gig with my P-Basses where someone said 'gosh, I wish you had brought that supersonic monstrosity of a bass that literally no one is impressed by.' But for that hot second in my own band I had to cut through 3 Metal guitarists with Triple Rectifiers and a drummer wielding baseball bats, a Zon and an SVT with an 8x10 (or two) did the trick. For everything else, a P-Bass shaped object with dead rounds, through something with maybe 100 watts and 15 will totally do.

 

[chris_b]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

For three reasons: usually a more expensive bass is better made and feels more comfortable to play, usually a more expensive bass will be made of better materials and sounds better, and anything that is expensive has value as a status symbol, signalling that the player is no longer one of the crowd.

Of course if you are firmly one of the crowd you won't accept that any of these points are valid. That's where a $300 bass comes in, so at the end of the day everyone is happy.

There are also other reasons. . . . . ymmv

 

[BlueTalon]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

Who ever said that tone is 100% in the fingers and 0% anywhere else? Nobody says that, and nobody thinks it, so your counter-thesis seems to just be trying to start an argument. It's a straw man.

There's not necessarily any direct correlation between the cost on an instrument and the quality, but quality, and the consistency of that quality, tend to go up as the price goes up. A top notch player only becomes top notch by spending a lot of time playing. Spending that much time playing gives a person the experience to know exactly what they want in an instrument, and the chances of a $300 bass from Guitar Center providing a top notch player everything they want in an instrument are damned slim.

 

[walking Bass]

View attachment 3461056
True, I've noticed it too.
But then there are some awesome exceptions. Like Stanley Clarke.

That's a beautiful set of basses you have. I also agree with you and have more than my share of expensive instruments. I just missed buying an Alembic because I thought I should prep my wife and someone else swooped in before I got there.

 

[CreativeBass]

I'm in the house band for a weekly blues jam . I let other players use my bass if they want to . And I'm the first to notice how it sounds completely different with different players . Completely different . Same bass , same amp , same settings .

That's a great point and a very relevant observation. Thanks for that.

 

[David Heath]

I don't agree that pros use expensive gear. An awful lot of my heroes play Fenders and I would not call Fenders expensive. They are affordable.
Peace
Davo

 

[BlueTalon]

I don't agree that pros use expensive gear. An awful lot of my heroes play Fenders and I would not call Fenders expensive. They are affordable.
Peace
Davo

Fenders aren't something you can get at Guitar Center for $300.

(edit) That was directed more at the OP than at you, David. A later look at what I posted showed it probably came across snarkier than I intended.

 

[nilorius]

Fenders aren't something you can get at Guitar Center for $300.

You can devide Fender price in 3 = Fender MIA, MIM and Squier. But there are very good brands also, which gives instruments in low and high prices, like Ibanez.

 

[BlueTalon]

You can devide Fender price in 3 = Fender MIA, MIM and Squier. But there are very good brands also, which gives instruments in low and high prices, like Ibanez.

I don't doubt that in any way. I was taking issue with the OP's framing of the debate, a snarky swipe at people who say tone is in the fingers.

 

[nilorius]

I don't doubt that in any way. I was taking issue with the OP's framing of the debate, a snarky swipe at people who say tone is in the fingers.

Sorry, it seemes i confused the thread.

 

[Rib 13]

Fenders aren't something you can get at Guitar Center for $300.

(edit) That was directed more at the OP than at you, David. A later look at what I posted showed it probably came across snarkier than I intended.

I do that all the time.....I'll write something then realize days later that it comes off as snarky or arrogant......(sigh) oh, the problem of text discussions without body language or verbal cues

 

[JimmyM]

I don't doubt that in any way. I was taking issue with the OP's framing of the debate, a snarky swipe at people who say tone is in the fingers.

I've seen snarkier, mostly from me It's completely based out of a misunderstanding of the meaning of "tone is in your fingers." And you try to tell people on here that and they're like, "OK, so how do I get a ring modulator sound using only fingers?" or "Why not just play the cheapest bass in the world?" It's based on a complete lack of appreciation for what people's styles bring to the table and how drastically the sound can change from one player to the next just through playing style.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Some of the tone is in the fingers, a lot of it is in the bass. I can hear a Ric every time, fingers or pick. Hard to explain that away with tired generalities.

 

[JimmyM]

Some of the tone is in the fingers, a lot of it is in the bass. I can hear a Ric every time, fingers or pick. Hard to explain that away with tired generalities.

Bet if I pick up your Ric, it won't sound at all like you do with it. Bet it sounds a lot closer to what I normally sound like with my own gear. And THAT is the meaning of "tone is in the fingers," not nitpicky comparisons between two completely different basses with different tonal profiles.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Nope. A Ric always sounds like a Ric unless you go out of your way to EQ out it's natural clank and grind. You can muffle it, (like Macca did) but you can't hide it. By the same token, you will never get a Chris Squire tone out of a Hofner, it just isn't there to begin with. You can enhance or detract from an instruments tone, but some basses are sonically unique, some aren't.

 

[JimmyM]

Nope. A Ric always sounds like a Ric unless you go out of your way to EQ out it's natural clank and grind. You can muffle it, (like Macca did) but you can't hide it. By the same token, you will never get a Chris Squire tone out of a Hofner, it just isn't there to begin with. You can enhance or detract from an instruments tone, but some basses are sonically unique, some aren't.

Right, because Chris Squire and Paul McCartney sounded identical playing their Rics. And so did Lemmy.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Macca put dead flats on and dialed every bit of Treble out his Ric trying to get it to sound like a Hofner. Lemmy's Bass sounded exactly like you'd expect a Ric to sound cranked through heavy distortion. I still hear a Ric there, it's silly to argue they don't have an inherent distinctive tone, they are famous for it. I'm not denying that attack and the other nuances between players don't make a difference, but again, show me a player who can get a Squire tone out of a Hofner, and I will believe "it's all in the fingers".

 

[JimmyM]

Macca put dead flats on and dialed every bit of Treble out his Ric trying to get it to sound like a Hofner. Lemmy's Bass sounded exactly like you'd expect a Ric to sound cranked through heavy distortion. I still hear a Ric there, it's silly to argue they don't have an inherent distinctive tone, they are famous for it. I'm not denying that attack and the other nuances between players don't make a difference, but again, show me a player who can get a Squire tone out of a Hofner, and I will believe "it's all in the fingers".

Slap new rounds on it, favor the bridge pickup a little, split the signal between an Ampeg amp and a Marshall sounding guitar amp, and you'd be surprised how close you can get it. I couldn't make recordings of it at the time and that bass now has flats on it, but I have done it. I subbed out a Jay Turser violin bass for the Hofner and a Crate Powerblock and Tech 21 British pedal for the Marshall amp, but I darn sure have done it. And while I won't say it was an exact duplicate of a Ric with new rounds going through the same rig, it was a lot closer than you'd expect.

But if Chris Squire were still with us, he could have walked up to me, taken that same cheap bass through all the same stuff, not change a thing, and sounded WAAAAAAAAAAY closer to Chris Squire than you or I ever could. Some might have even mistaken him for the real deal.

Tone is in the fingers.