If tone really is in the fingers...

[socialleper]

IMHO the axiom means: Regardless of what bass and gear you use, you will always sound like you. It doesn't necessarily mean your tone will be exactly the same though.

IMHO, to a large degree your fingers (actually the way you use your fingers) do create tone, but the pickups, amp, speakers, strings, and even to a small degree the wood and scale of the instrument tend to take this tone and modify it substantially.

Since I am big on splitting grammatical hairs, I would say that your fingers create style or character. But even then you get into some murky territory. A person with a very specific playing style, like Geddy Lee for instance, would sound mostly like Geddy Lee no matter what. Although the sound of him playing YYZ on a P bass with flats would probably elicit a few "What is that guys problem?" comments. However, there are a lot of session players that can imitate the playing styles of other known players, or play to have as little "character" as possible. The idea of bass players having an immutable "finger print" to their playing is a little bit of a myth, IMO.

To me the word "Tone" means sound. Yes, how hard and where the player plays a string will absolutely impact the tone created. That said, no bass player on the planet with make a P with flats sound like a Warwick Thumb with SS round wounds. The laws of physics make it impossible. You fingers will never make an SS 12" 100w combo amp sound like an SVT-CL with an 810, which will never sound like my Mesa Subway D800 and Barefaced Super Twin 212 cab. Again, physics.

 

[mbell75]

Tone is indeed in the fingers (and ears as far as EQ choices go). But the difference in playability of a $300 instrument compared to a $3000 is a open chasm. Good tone is subjective, why would you pay for an Alembic when a washtub with a string and a broom will fit your tonal and expressive needs, unless the Alembic makes it really easy to get that vintage washtub tone you're looking for.
Should anyone else's opinion matter of how you choose to spend your kids inheritance $$$ on your own current masturbatory enjoyment of life?
I leave that one for open discussion.

This is an old and tired argument. It’s 2019, there are PLENTY of $300 guitars and basses that look great and play incredibly well. Even the ones who have artist models made both in Mexico (or overseas) and the US, they only play the expensive US made ones if they play them. If tone is in the fingers, why not rock that Squier version?

 

[Weberman]

Some aspect of tone comes from the musician. I don't think anyone denies it. Beyond that, the whole sentiment stems from a few sources, I think. One is that some people love platitudes. They don't actually have input, but they need to say something. In an attempt to sound learned and deep, the just regurgitate "tone is in the fingers!" That often translates to "I simply have no idea."

Another issue is that people are often contrarians. They don't like such questions, so they just try to shut them down with a curt, canned response. It is like saying "you can't get tone x, y, or, so stop wasting my time by discussing it on a discussion forum!"

Perhaps the biggest issue is that people conflate terms. If you ask about general tone, some people think you somehow want to cop another player's entire sound, including his style. They include the note selection, technique, and idiosyncrasies of that person in "tone", somehow. Sure, player "x" may be identifiable playing a cheap P-bass copy, a Stingray, or an Alembic. His technique and note selection would likely be the same, and you would recognize that. You'd be awfully insincere if you said his tone isn't different between the different rigs, though.

The player influences the tone to a degree. To say gear doesn't matter is just wrong.

 

[cnltb]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

Should they play cheap ,possibly inferior instruments?

 

[kalle74]

This again?

Well... I'm gonna tell you a secret... It's not *only* in the fingers. Only a vast majority of it is.

A better player will sound better on any instrument than an inferior player. Also, two equally skilled players will sound different on the same instrument. The difference is subtle way they differ in using their fingers.

Case closed. For good, I hope.

 

[mbell75]

Should they play cheap ,inferior instruments?

Since when does cheap mean inferior? How many guys do you see playing their own Squier (or cheaper alternative) artist series guitar or basses? It’s built to their specs and tone is in the fingers right? Tone is not in the fingers.

 

[stringthrough]

Even the best amp with the best bass sound like crap with bad technique. I say technique is more important than bass, amp, or any pedal you may put between the two.

While I wasn't explicit about it, I was referring to players who have their sh*t together, not newbies or bass-bashing Neanderthals.

 

[FRoss6788]

Cheap almost always means inferior.
A starter pack Affinity bass is inferior to almost everything else out there, IMHO of course. Inexpensive, good value, those mean something different to me. Cheap, however, to me means inferior.

 

[DanGroove]

forget the 3 color Sunburst finish and a maple board also enhance the tone.

No, sunbursts actually degrade tone,

This guy is playing his $200 dollar pawn shop bass - he seems to do alright with it.

I'm not claiming that you can't find a good sounding bass at that price point. I got a peavey T-40 for $99 in a pawn shop a few years back. It sounded great but I didn't personally like the feel, but I know there are plenty of people that love those.

I would point out that a $200 score in a pawn shop prior to 1980 (don't know what year he got it but he said he finally pulled it out in the studio for Moving Pictures) adjusted for inflation today is more like an $800 pawn shop find.

 

[JW56789]

I may be uniquely qualified on this subject.

Three years ago, I sold my Alembic Spoiler 5-string and my custom Elan 5-string, following my wife's unsuccessful spinal surgery which led to her disability and our loss of her income. I miss them from time to time, but as the sale paid our mortgage for many months, I have no regrets, and I basically played them for free, money-wise. All good.

As I no longer play out, I still play around the house and still had the itch. So I bought a Squier James Johnston Jazz (I hadn't owned a four-string since 1987) and later the remarkable Squier VM 5-string Precision Bass, strung with my usual Boomers or XL's. Just so I could have a couple things around the house, and they were going to be platforms for adding hop-up parts. (This just in: They're plenty good as-is.)

Naturally, the Squiers AIN'T Alembics. (!) But the funny thing is I still sound like ME, albeit less hi-fi. Weird, innit?

So I think for most of us with some miles under our belt it's some sort of psycho-acoustic closed loop. Hand us most any bass and any amp, and within reason, we will unconsciously sort it out to 'that' tone in the back of our head that registers as 'me' (or 'you').

So to me, I think it's in your head. Now, for sure, it's a better-sounding 'me' on Alembic than $5 Squier pickups, worlds apart construction-wise for sure, but the Squier JW ain't bad considering the cost differential.

 

[Wasnex]

Since I am big on splitting grammatical hairs, I would say that your fingers create style or character. But even then you get into some murky territory. A person with a very specific playing style, like Geddy Lee for instance, would sound mostly like Geddy Lee no matter what. Although the sound of him playing YYZ on a P bass with flats would probably elicit a few "What is that guys problem?" comments. However, there are a lot of session players that can imitate the playing styles of other known players, or play to have as little "character" as possible. The idea of bass players having an immutable "finger print" to their playing is a little bit of a myth, IMO.

To me the word "Tone" means sound. Yes, how hard and where the player plays a string will absolutely impact the tone created. That said, no bass player on the planet with make a P with flats sound like a Warwick Thumb with SS round wounds. The laws of physics make it impossible. You fingers will never make an SS 12" 100w combo amp sound like an SVT-CL with an 810, which will never sound like my Mesa Subway D800 and Barefaced Super Twin 212 cab. Again, physics.

I don't think I can argue with any of this, or that any of it is in conflict with what I wrote. People do tend to change their technique as they play, but usually in predictable and consistent ways. When I shift from finger style, to slap, to pick, and back again it's not unusual. I practice and use these different techniques regularly and have my own unique way of executing each technique. When someone says tone is in the fingers, it has more to do with style, after touch, note choice, how hard you play, etc than it has to do with the balance of bass and treble in ones tone. But I play with a lot of treble so perhaps EQ strategies are an important consideration as well. IMHO the saying is about sound, but the meaning is broader and it should not be taken so literally. As I previously said, it basically means you will always sound like you, regardless of the gear you are using.

 

[Element Zero]

Who hurt you?

 

[MD]

This again?

Case closed. For good, I hope.

As will this thread be more than likely.

 

[logdrum]

This means that if a pro or virtuoso plays a 100K or 300 bass, he will sound better than the average Joe on those instruments.

And tone is useless without musicianship ad musicianship is meaningless without the music You can have the most gorgeous tone . but if you can't keep time, don't know phrasing, don't know how to play with others . then your glorious tone is of no use to music.

A lot of the tone we see that a virtuoso produces is usually in context of the music. You can do a do-re-mi lick boring or sensual without worrying about the tone at all.

 

[DigitalMan]

If you take a walk in Manhattan during the winter, why isn’t everyone wearing the cheapest possible coat that will keep them warm, regardless of how it looks, fits, feels, or smells?

If you’re freezing in the wilderness you probably don’t care. But once necessities are taken care of, some people like nice things.

Why don’t professional golfers play cheap starter clubs?

Why don’t professional chefs buy their cooking implements from the discount display at Target?

I can keep it going all day.

It’s not a well-considered question.

 

[gln1955]

Since when does cheap mean inferior? How many guys do you see playing their own Squier (or cheaper alternative) artist series guitar or basses? It’s built to their specs and tone is in the fingers right? Tone is not in the fingers.

If it's a Squier, then it's built to hit a certain price point, so they are most definitely not built to the artist's specs. Artist models that are a reasonable copy of what an artist actually plays are most always gonna be Fender branded and cost a bit. The differences between the real deal and a Squier version are more than tone, as has been discussed here at length.

 

[TolerancEJ]

Victor Wooten tells a great story on obtaining his first Fodera.

 

[Loring]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

Playability

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

While I wasn't explicit about it, I was referring to players who have their sh*t together, not newbies or bass-bashing Neanderthals.

Hey! Watch what you say about us bass-bashing neanderthals, bubba!

Tone is in MY FISTS!

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Because tone is more than just fingers.

True, the basics are from the fingers, but the rest of the shape comes from the instrument. The same run played by the same bassist on a Fender P, Ric 4003, and Höfner Beatle Bass will sound totally different on each one.

But you can still tell it is a P or Rick or Hofner