If tone really is in the fingers...

[Mustang Surly]

"If tone really is in the fingers..."

...then I better stop buying basses and invest in a new set of fingers.

 

[brianrost]

Have we run out of popcorn yet? Six pages in one day! I love TB!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Let me know what the real answer to the question is

 

[BurningSkies]

If tone was truly in the fingers you wouldn't need a bass.

 

[Liam Wald]

Some people have no taste or appreciation for quality and for those folks anything is good enough.
Some people enjoy well made items that last a long time, hold value, and function properly with little upkeep.
Everyone is free to choose as they wish.

 

[Lownote38]

I started on a cheaper than cheap bass and it got my chops in order because it was really hard to play. Then, I got a nicer MIJ Fender and it was way easier to play, so I could play twice as fast on a mid range instrument. Fast forward to now, and I have a custom built 5 string that doesn't hide anything. You need good technique to sound good on it because it really reveals your issues. The pickups are really sensitive and don't hide anything. So, for me, my style is in my fingers, and it takes my fingers to get the tones I do out of instruments, but each level of build quality has changed how I get the sound I want.

 

[Texican]

I think my point (which I’ll admit I didn’t express very clearly earlier) was more along the lines of: And if they did, then what business is it of anybody else anyway? Music is a pretty strict meritocracy in many respects. The poseurs and full time brand name snobs get outed pretty quickly most times.



Oh I hear you. I’ve gotten attitude for the temerity of bringing a Gibson (plus a PB) to an audition; being too young or too old; not having the “look”; being too well dressed or not dressed well enough for a gig; not wanting to get stoned right before a gig; having a bandmate imagine his GF was getting a little too interested in me (although even he admitted I had done nothing to encourage it)…it goes on and on and isn’t going to stop.

My big problem (if it is a problem) is I’m kind of a purist when it comes to music. I don’t care much about looks or gear as long as it gets the job done. I’ll respectfully listen to suggestions and any criticisms directed at me. And some of it I will take to heart because I know (and actually do believe) I don’t know it all. But I don’t give everything said to me the same weight. Because I’m also of the opinion not every opinion is worth seriously considering. I’m just in it for the music. And I just want to play bass. Period.

So because of that, on some level, I never really got why somebody would care what somebody else is doing if it isn’t causing problems. Most arguments in music really come down to differences in personal taste and style rather than actual substance. So things like which brand, or whether or not to use a pick, or slapping, or tube vs solid-state, or digital vs analog, or “Is a Ric or a JB more appropriate for XYZ genre?”, are things I don’t worry about as long as it sounds good and serves the song. Because I know I don’t have to personally like something for it to be good music.

Brand name bass discussions drive me nuts for two reasons. First, at you average stage volumes, subtleties go out the door and any bass will probably work just well in the hands of an experienced player. Second, if you feel playing a specific brand or price tier of bass ups your game, then play one and let it go at that. Sing its praises if you will. That can be useful information to someone. But lay off the personal digs. Your bass - your call. Nobody’s arguing with you about that. Now in exchange please reciprocate and kindly extend that courtesy to every other player.

Hope that better clarified my earlier sweeping statement.

I have to say, I agree with absolutely everything you said.

 

[Drop1]

I started on a cheaper than cheap bass and it got my chops in order because it was really hard to play. Then, I got a nicer MIJ Fender and it was way easier to play, so I could play twice as fast on a mid range instrument. Fast forward to now, and I have a custom built 5 string that doesn't hide anything. You need good technique to sound good on it because it really reveals your issues. The pickups are really sensitive and don't hide anything. So, for me, my style is in my fingers, and it takes my fingers to get the tones I do out of instruments, but each level of build quality has changed how I get the sound I want.

My current Ibanez is like that. With the stock pickups and pre you could be so lazy and it would still sound somewhat smooth. After slapping that John East in it, I have to stay on point. It hides nothing like you said . It stays crystal clear all the way up the frequency spectrum and the dynamics can get crazy if you lose control. On the flip side of that coin, instruments like that are by far the most expressive.

 

[BurningSkies]

I think the end notion is that we all have a 'tone' or a 'sound' and style that we natively personally express with any bass we pick up, but if the assumption is that you'll sound the same on a short scale passive vintage Gibson EB v. a long scale Fodera or modern MTD or whatever, it's wrong. Each instrument has it's own trademark sound, feel and tone to some degree more or less. If anyone would suggest otherwise...they're just trolling.

 

[electracoyote]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars?

Is this a proven fact? I'm not sure I buy into the premise of this thread.

I've heard many stories about full-time professionals either in bands or studio types who took a more modestly priced instrument, set it up to their tastes, maybe some basic modding of electronics or hardware that didn't even come close to "thousands," and they are laying it down day and night with a much less expensive instrument. I see pictures of pros all the time that, upon close inspection, are obviously more consumer grade instruments tweaked for pro applications.

It's not just in the fingers, it's what's in their heads, starting with good taste and choices in how they approach a song. No one needs to spend thousands to get a great pro-level tone. Some may want to, but it's not a requirement.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

Top bassists play top of the line basses, Because they can, if it was your choice wouldn't you?. People say Tone is all in your fingers are actually saying you need to practice more without hurting your feelings, & your wallet! think; the 10,000 hr. rule/theory. ask Victor Wooten to play your bass a song you know. I bet he sounds better than you! & bet you can tell who's put in more practice time , but it's easier to say he plays better gear. than I can't practice that much. Or that he has more "talent" than i do!

 

[blowinblue]

Tone is in my ears. I can’t hear a thing through my fingers.

M. M.

 

[BurningSkies]

Top bassists play top of the line basses, Because they can, if it was your choice wouldn't you?. People say Tone is all in your fingers are actually saying you need to practice more without hurting your feelings, & your wallet! think; the 10,000 hr. rule/theory. ask Victor Wooten to play your bass a song you know. I bet he sounds better than you! & bet you can tell who's put in more practice time , but it's easier to say he plays better gear. than I can't practice that much. Or that he has more "talent" than i do!

Can I caveat this?

Often times 'top players' don't play rare, vintage or boutique instruments, even if they love them. I'm certainly by no means a "top bassist" but I found myself as the lucky owner of a couple really nice instruments...one a pretty rarified custom build and another that's a super early example by the same luthier. That's pretty awesome. And instead of using them on the road, I bring the production-line entry-version with me.

It doesn't have the fancy top woods, extreme detailing or cache of being a one-off custom, but it sounds fantastic, is set up to play as well, and while I'd be sad if someone stole it or it got seriously damaged on the road, it would not be nearly the tragedy of a historic or one-of-a-kind instrument being wrecked or going missing.

 

[SLO Surfer]

why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center?

Because instruments have more than just sound. They have feel and playability too.

 

[Kmonk]

I have never bought into the "tone is in the fingers" argument. Everything in the signal chain has an impact on tone. Some may be very subtle but everything has an impact. Fingers can impact clarity of notes and other characteristics but type of strings, type of amp, cabs and the materials used in making the bass have the most impact. If tone was purely in the fingers, we could get the same tone regardless of the strings, amp, cabs and basses we used.

As far as the question regarding top notch players using expensive instruments is concerned, not all of them do. Those who do use them obviously like the sound and the way they play.

 

[JRA]

If tone really is in the fingers...
...some of you will have to start all over again!

 

[SactoBass]

I have never bought into the "tone is in the fingers" argument. Everything in the signal chain has an impact on tone.

Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig +1

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

"The tone is all in your fingers", when taken as a blanket statement, is not true. Of course, that's the usually result with statements like that.

I also believe, as another TB'er mentioned, that it is most often meant as a "don't become overly obsessed with gear" kind of thing.

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that the "...fingers" statement is about as straight forward as you can get actually. Technique is what makes you sound good. On anything. It doesnt matter if you've got one string on a stick in a bucket, or an $8000 masterpiece of an instrument. How you play determines your sound, your feel, and your style. Not what you play. Where you play and how you pluck drastically out weighs any eq settings you could ever set. It's what separates the good from the bad. On an $80 Chinese online knock off, or a fancy boutique masterpiece.

The "...fingers" is pretty straight forward. It really doesnt matter what you have...at all. You just need to learn to play it. You can get anything to sound the way you want by playing it differently.

 

[40Hz]

I need better more expensive hands/fingers then. stupid me for looking at new basses/gear,and listening entently to planks of wood! I want those tony iommi finger tip thingys too. if it's true!

If you ever figure out where to buy them then let me know too?

(Note: tried the fingertip thingies. Didn’t like them.)

 

[nostatic]

Lets see what some others think:

Ask not what your tone can do for you, ask what you can do for your tone.
- John F. Kennedy

An unexamined tone is not worth playing.
- Socrates

The only tone we have to fear is tone itself.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

I'm a great believer in tone, and I find that the harder I work, the more I have of it.
- Thomas Jefferson

Found a few others - man, some deep tonal thoughts here...

All that we see or seem is but a tone within a tone.
- Edgar Allan Poe

Good tone comes from experience. A lot of that comes from bad tone.
- Will Rogers

The supreme art of tone is to subdue the eq without fighting.
- Sun Tzu

The journey of a thousand tones begins with one note.
- Lao Tzu

There is nothing on this earth to be more prized than true tone.
- Thomas Aquinas

What we achieve inwardly will change our outer tone.
- Plutarch

All our tones can come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
- Walt Disney

Tone is not a problem to be solved, but a sound to be experienced.
- Soren Kierkegaard

Life isn't about finding tone. Life is about creating tone.
- George Bernard Shaw

Where there is tone, there is life.
- Mahatma Ghandi

 

[chris_b]

Your tone is in your fingers and the bass. The personality and uniqueness of your music is in your fingers.

People buy $3000 basses because they are excellent instruments.

 

[JimmyM]

The phrase "tone is in the fingers" doesn't mean a Fodera Imperial with new rounds running clean sounds just like a Hofner Beatle bass with dead flats through a fuzz box. What it means is that we as players have a certain way we play and a certain sound we usually tend to go for, and between the two, the differences between the gear we use become less important. I've seen it happen many times over the 40+ years I've been doing this when someone sits in on my gear or vice versa.

The reason I have more expensive basses that I play most of the time is because they feel good to me, plus I've established certain tastes that I like better than others. I also have a handful of different basses, some of which I paid very little for, and I appreciate the subtle differences of different basses and their sounds and feel, even though I can function well on anything you give me, even a cheap Squier.

At any rate, you worry way too much about what other people do. Some people play way more expensive basses than mine and I'm better than them, some people play way cheaper basses than mine and they're better than me. So what? I do what I do the way I want, and I'm not worried about what others do as long as they're happy. If a $300 Squier rocks your world, play it and don't worry about what others do. Done many a gig with great players using a cheapo.