What if the bass hardware and the finger technique are *both* factors?
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If tone really is in the fingers...
- Thread starter mbell75
- Start date
I see the same silly arguments when this subject comes up. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the OP's point (for better or worse) was comparing price points of similar instruments and whether the "tone" is in the fingers or in the extra grand you spent.
Put a good player on a Squier Classic Vibe Jazz Bass, then give him a custom shop American Jazz Bass. I'm sure the CS *feels* better than the CV to the player, but he is gonna sound like "himself playing a jazz bass" on both.
Obviously a Jazz/P/Ric/Stingray/Washtub with a stick and a string/upright bass/etc have their own sound. Pick one that you like and then see how different you sound on a $300 version vs a $3,000 version.
Now you get it
Put a good player on a Squier Classic Vibe Jazz Bass, then give him a custom shop American Jazz Bass. I'm sure the CS *feels* better than the CV to the player, but he is gonna sound like "himself playing a jazz bass" on both.
Obviously a Jazz/P/Ric/Stingray/Washtub with a stick and a string/upright bass/etc have their own sound. Pick one that you like and then see how different you sound on a $300 version vs a $3,000 version.
Now you get it
They are, and physics proves your point.
That being said, a bad bass in good hands will sound good; while a good bass in bad hands will sound bad... so which is more important? The fingers? Or the bass?
IME they are inextricably linked. A good player can elicit a greater range of responses from any instrument than a poor player, but will always be constrained by the capabilities of the instrument. A good instrument will have a greater range of responses, making it easier for a player to control provided they have the abilities to do so. In some ways, a poor player will sound worse on a good instrument because it will respond more freely and dynamically to inconsistencies in the playing, thus exposing the player's shortcomings.
It's not difficult to make an argument that, to improve, one should play better instruments in order to better hear/feel/understand how technique affects sound. An instrument that can only produce dull thuds no matter what you do to it will never light the way...
Word. Why anyone would ever want to give credit for their sound to the gear is beyond me. If all my favorite gear disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow, and all I had to choose from is gear I don't like, I would still find a way to make it sound as close as I possibly could to whatever sound I need at any given time. It will not be ideal to me, it will not be optimized to my own exacting tastes, but I've already had to do it so many times in my life and pulled it off that I know I can do it every single time. I optimize my likes in picking out my own gear for different types of sounds because I can. But nothing stops me in getting what I need out of any working bass and amp, and it'll be a sorry day if it ever happens.
"You play the gear. The gear does not play you." --- Victor Lemonte Wooten
I've seen snarkier, mostly from meIt's completely based out of a misunderstanding of the meaning of "tone is in your fingers." And you try to tell people on here that and they're like, "OK, so how do I get a ring modulator sound using only fingers?" or "Why not just play the cheapest bass in the world?" It's based on a complete lack of appreciation for what people's styles bring to the table and how drastically the sound can change from one player to the next just through playing style.
I think its less an argument than it is a reply to all the cliche "Tone is in your fingers" supposed mic drop posts - as if that response is "end of story/case closed" ( sometimes, they are accompanied by"</THREAD> comments as emphasis)
Tone is a combination of things - a person's individual touch/finesse gradient is just one factor
And by far the very most important factor. The others don't even come close.
Over the years, Ive had friends say I sound like me on any bass I play! Nice compliment!........but if this was the case, I should only have to bring one bass in the studios everytime I go.......As it is, I usually bring several as the tone(s) out of my EB3 with tapes with me playing is drastically different than the tone(s) out of my Jazz(es) with rounds with me playing....so I don't put the "Tone is in my fingers" parameter any higher than anything else...I choose the right tool for the job and just become a sum of my parts
I think maybe we need to separate the 'tone' question into two elements - the 'voice' of the instrument and how the player is able to manipulate that voice. The 'tone is in the fingers' question clearly applies to the second element.
YMMV.
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Oh man, you nailed it. And in that respect, a better instrument and better equipment will help a diligent young player get better faster. Cheap instruments and equipment can give an indistinct sound that masks mistakes. I experienced this myself when I went from an Epiphone bass with old tapewound strings to a Rickenbacker with rounds -- suddenly, I could hear everything I was playing including, all the flaws. I learned fairly quickly how to improve my technique to reduce/eliminate squeaks and fret buzz. It's something that otherwise would have taken me much longer to learn.
the fact that your post is implying tone is multiple elements is all Ive been saying in any of these threads
See post #262... you sound like "you on an EB3" when you play an EB3. Same for when you play the jazz. Now do you need a $3,000 Jazz Bass to get the job done when the job calls for a jazz bass?
Side note: I'd love to hear some clips of your EB3 with tapewounds. I've recently fallen in love with XL tapewounds!
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Seriously guys, if we were debating whether or not a good racecar driver needed the absolute best racecar, or whether his driving skills are most important, would anyone say: "if the driver is more important than the car then why doesn't he pick up lumber from Home Depot in his racecar?!!!" 
Seriously guys, if we were debating whether or not a good racecar driver needed the absolute best racecar, or whether his driving skills are most important, would anyone say: "if the driver is more important than the car then why doesn't he pick up lumber from Home Depot in his racecar?!!!"
Like the driver and car, the player and the instrument are components in a larger system. And systems are only as good as the weakest link. I know if you put me in an F1 car I'd leave the track at the first corner...
I assume you would be headed to Home Depot to pick up that lumber
As to your point, I don't disagree with you. My issue is when people take the argument way into left field and make counter arguments that are irrelevant to what "the tone is in your fingers" actually means.
I assume you would be headed to Home Depot to pick up that lumber
...
I'd probably not have enough room once I'd picked up half of the tyre wall!
