I'm getting tired of it...

[michael_t]

You're a flats man.

I used to be, but not anymore. I'm a rounds/semi-rounds guy now and the Pressurewounds hit the sweet spot for me both in tone and feel.

 

[Jon Moody]

They're a reasonably good string but an Alloy 52 flat would render them redundant. An Alloy 52 flat would outsell the other two mentioned...by far.
The two mentioned in production now would be a thing of the past. I think you already know that or you wouldn't have asked about what would happen to them.

I could see it possibly replacing the Brite Flats (and becoming the "true" bright flat), but replacing Pressurewounds? Yeah, that's a no.

And I asked what would happen to them, because most people haven't ever had to take an idea from start to finish. There's a lot of considerations to take into account, so I'm offering that perspective.

 

[quickfix]

I pulled this out specifically. Give the Brite Flats a try first, because my educated guess is the hypothetical string will be nearly identical.

I would rather try and make a set of strings like the TI flats than add something to our line that, tonally, is going to be fighting with a couple other existing sets.

I could see it possibly replacing the Brite Flats (and becoming the "true" bright flat), but replacing Pressurewounds? Yeah, that's a no.

And I asked what would happen to them, because most people haven't ever had to take an idea from start to finish. There's a lot of considerations to take into account, so I'm offering that perspective.

Yes, there would be a lot of research into engineering, design, marketing, engineering a new production line, and advertising, to name just a few.

I believe you would be making a direct competitor to TI Jazz flats. They are wound with a "special nickel alloy" which is purported to be an iron nickel alloy akin to Alloy 52.
The real question is...can you do it cheaper than TI, and then capitalize on the "Buy American" emotion?

 

[Jon Moody]

I believe you would be making a direct competitor to TI Jazz flats. They are wound with a "special nickel alloy" which is purported to be an iron nickel alloy akin to Alloy 52.

It's closer to Monel. The output would be much greater if it was a nickel-iron.

Besides, TI flats have a lot of things going on under the hood; the outer wrap is the least interesting thing about those.

The real question is...can you do it cheaper than TI, and then capitalize on the "Buy American" emotion?

I'll be honest on this one, personally speaking and as far as I can get from the day job.

As much as people like the idea of buying American, they don't like the price tag.

We tried that with having a US version of the Rocktron Banshee made. Tons of people loved the sentiment, and thought it was great...but balked at the extra money that went into that.

 

[quickfix]

It's closer to Monel. The output would be much greater if it was a nickel-iron.

Besides, TI flats have a lot of things going on under the hood; the outer wrap is the least interesting thing about those.

Ah. I've a set of Monel Roto 77 that came with a Fender Aerodyne Jazz non export. Had it home for ten minutes before they got replaced. Yuck.

The TIs have the silk underlay making for a very "compliant" feel...which many, including me, could do without.

I think that most American made flats are a great deal. They're cost effective and are made to a high quality standard.

Fun chatting with you Jon.

Solid info.

 

[HaphAsSard]

The next level of what you're suggesting is, effectively, flattening the wire. Which we can do; we have the machinery to do so.

The bigger question is: why? With Pressurewounds and Brite Flats already out there, what value does a true flatwound set of Alloy 52 bring us? And, if we did come up with such a thing, what would happen to the sales of the other two; would we be cannibalizing on them?

I'll just offer a specific point of discussion. Alloy (52) being equal, would a true flatwound be more durable - as in: maintaining its baseline tone - than the existing Brite Flats?

My tone goals have gradually steered toward the fresh flatwound type. I like the, uh, non-round tone, but I also like a good amount of sustained mids. OTOH, I happen to have very acidic sweat. Even flats don't really last me the proverbial decades.
So far I've hesitated trying the EB Slinky (cobalt) Flatwounds, because of rust reports and becouse I don't believe I need the absolute brightest, zingiest flats out there (especially if I'm bound to kill them fast), but I haven't got around to trying the Bright Flats either: I'm not sure the fact they're wrapped in Alloy 52, which is fairly resistant to corrosion AFAI'veR, compensates for the fact they will get some humidity and crud in between the ground-flat windings.

For a GHS Alloy 52 flat to make sense, it would have to not overlap with the BF, of course: could it have a distinct, less bright in tone but decidedly longer in useful life? Something like Roto 77 but with more longevity?

(To be fair, I'm not even sure how you could market this point without making the Brites look bad though, especially considering long life within their string-type bracket has been a selling point...
Also to be fair: isn't making a long-lived string sort of shooting oneself in the foot, from a manufacturer's perspective?)

 

[Jon Moody]

I'm not sure the fact they're wrapped in Alloy 52, which is fairly resistant to corrosion AFAI'veR, compensates for the fact they will get some humidity and crud in between the ground-flat windings.

Any string - ANY - that has gaps in the windings, no matter how slight, will collect some form of humidity, sweat, grime, etc..

For a GHS Alloy 52 flat to make sense, it would have to not overlap with the BF, of course: could it have a distinct, less bright in tone but decidedly longer in useful life? Something like Roto 77 but with more longevity?

Given how flatwounds are constructed, I would wager that on the dark side, an Alloy 52 flat wound sound closer to the Fender Flats and on the bright side, a carbon copy of the existing Brite Flats. So, not distinct enough to stand on its own.

(To be fair, I'm not even sure how you could market this point without making the Brites look bad though, especially considering long life within their string-type bracket has been a selling point...

Which goes back to my question of what value would this hypothetical set bring to the existing string line, and would it cannibalize the Brite Flats in the process.

Also to be fair: isn't making a long-lived string sort of shooting oneself in the foot, from a manufacturer's perspective?)

There's so much weight that's put on longevity as a benefit, but at the end of the day, it's completely subjective. So many variables go into that determination, that to say "These are long lasting" is almost comical. Compared to what?

Because for every person that says "These strings retain their broken-in tone for a very long time," there's another person that says "These strings go dull quickly."

 

[Jon Moody]

The TIs have the silk underlay making for a very "compliant" feel...which many, including me, could do without.

The core diameters on that set is playing a larger role in the feel than the silk underlay. The latter is darkening the tone, and removing some of the overtones and sustain.

 

[michael_t]

Given how flatwounds are constructed, I would wager that on the dark side, an Alloy 52 flat wound sound closer to the Fender Flats and on the bright side, a carbon copy of the existing Brite Flats. So, not distinct enough to stand on its own.

I've posted in the past about the Brite Flats reminding me of the Fender 9050s, which I meant as something good. After having tried a handful of different flats, including the GHS Precision Flats, I've decided I would much prefer the "semi-modern flatwound" flavor with full-bodied punch with clarity, definition and sustain over the traditional thump and thud.

If I were to ever decide to venture back into the flatwound territory with one of my basses (most likely the Fender P), I'd be perfectly happy with the Brite Flats as the "flatwound" of my choice from a tonal standpoint. The only thing I wish for is for them to be updated with 37.25" winding length at some point down the road.

 

[quickfix]

The core diameters on that set is playing a larger role in the feel than the silk underlay. The latter is darkening the tone, and removing some of the overtones and sustain.

TI's are a thinner core, and round no doubt. Like you said, many things go into this distinctive feel and sound, hence the design and engineering that GHS would have to invest in.
Probably not economical, especially as someone else already has the magic formula.

 

[Jon Moody]

TI's are a thinner core, and round no doubt. Like you said, many things go into this distinctive feel and sound, hence the design and engineering that GHS would have to invest in.

Well that's the thing. We've made Silk & Steel and Silk & Bronze acoustic guitar strings for decades, which is just a layer of silk running the length of a core wire as material is wound around it. There's no real design or engineering that we'd have to do, and even so, all of that R&D is written off yearly anyway.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Any string - ANY - that has gaps in the windings, no matter how slight, will collect some form of humidity, sweat, grime, etc.

Of course. In light of that, I'd better stay away from Brite Flats unless you decide to make them true flats. Either that, or I'd certainly consider a new GHS "Silk & 52" flatwound, if you decide to make them.

 

[ezra1]

Have a slice of pizza or fried chicken before playing.

Smoked Baby Back Ribs

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I would rather try and make a set of strings like the TI flats than add something to our line that, tonally, is going to be fighting with a couple other existing sets.

You already make a good string to use as a core for a “TI type” flat: Balanced Nickels. There are several reasons this could easily be superior in many minds to the TI’s. As for people not wanting to pay the extra manufacturing cost of a tape wrapped pure nickel round an old joke comes to mind. Two guys out in the woods turn a corner on the trail and a few yards away there’s a grizzly with cubs. As one guy takes off running his buddy says, “You can’t outrun a bear!” and he replies, “I only have to outrun you.”

 

[michael_t]

Here's an update on the GHS Brite Flats. After I got sick and tired of the Brite Flats' stickiness I put my Jazz Bass back in its gig bag and left it in there for many months. A couple of days ago I decided to take out the bass and see how it was doing after not playing it for so long. Surprisingly enough the strings were no longer sticky! I really can't explain why this is, but I'm so glad for whatever miracle happened. The strings play smoothly, they sound great, they hold their tuning, and I can easily get that Jazz Bass growl with them!

Summer vs. winter... Your original post was back in June, and now it's January. Is it drier in the winter than in the summer where you are? Could it have been the humidity that was affecting the way these strings felt before?

It's possible. The air in our apartment is noticeably dryer in the winter. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I'll have to wait until this summer to verify it. In the meanwhile I'm enjoying playing my bass with these strings.

Just following up on our conversation from earlier this year...

Just curious to see if you're still playing those Brite Flats? I ask because you and I have had the same love-hate relationship with those strings regarding the sticky feel. Guess what, I just installed a new set of BFs on my P bass two days ago. After failing to bond with them the first two times I tried them, I decided to give them one more shot.

I made sure to give them a thorough wipe-down with an alcohol wipe before installation. Then spent a solid couple of hours yesterday playing them in. When I picked up my bass this morning and started playing, I was pleasantly surprised at how smooth they feel already! I'm also growing to like their tonal character, ie flatwound-like full-bodied punch but still with roundwound clarity and definition.

They say "third time's a charm"... That's how this is turning out for me.

 

[Dave TB Killer]

I tried a set of those once. And only once. I think the set was on for two days before I went back to regular flats.

 

[Luckydog]

A few weeks ago I put a new set of GHS Brite Flats on my J, and they were really sticky. I've played it constantly since then, and they're not getting any less sticky. I'm tired of it, I'm going to take them off and soak them overnight in denatured alcohol. Hopefully that will take care of it.

Scotch Brite (or similar) scrubbing pad. Wrap around the entire circumference of each string, and grip snuggly. Wipe the entire length of each string rapidly and repeatedly. Wipe off any residue with microfiber cloth. You will not damage the string. That will loosen any oils, lacquer or manufacturing residue. I have not found that soaking in DA does a good job removing stuck-on residue.