I have a BFR limited run 'ray from a series of passive bases EB released somewhere around 2020. Okume body, same pup in the same spot with a series/parallel/ single selector. Same sound as with the preamp flat. Heaven. They are rare but findable.
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Im transitioning... not understanding the preAmp thing.
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
my issue with passive basses are mids. especially on jazz basses. lets say youre playing a song that benefits from the nice natural scoopy tone of a jazz, next song though, would benefit alot from more mids. OK, I've got no mid control so I'll dial in less neck pickup so that the mids of the bridge pickup are louder, but now my tone is wimpy because all the bass came from the neck pickup, now I either have to bend down and change the mids on my preamp pedal or walk back to my amp and turn my back to the crowd to fiddle with amp controls, a process I will have repeat when we play the next song that doesnt need so much mids.
If people are confused by knobs..there isn't much you can do for them.
They'll come across ghem somewhere in the chain.
Having said that, I do recall someone ask me to tune their amp.
It starts far earlier than that but I set up the amp for his bass ...he photographed the settings!!!
They'll come across ghem somewhere in the chain.
Having said that, I do recall someone ask me to tune their amp.
It starts far earlier than that but I set up the amp for his bass ...he photographed the settings!!!
Helps to retain highs that might otherwise be lost from a long cable
I just did the same. I put a John East J-Retro in my American Professional. It may be a honeymoon phase, but I really like it.
For my money I'd say: play whatever you like when you're just playing on your own. What sound do you like when you're just jamming along to songs on youtube or what tone do you enjoy when you're doing your practice routine? What do you want to hear the most, what makes you happiest or fits with the stuff you enjoy playing the most? If you dig the super clean, hi-fi, scooped thing, get yourself a knob job + battery bass & tee off; if you like a tubby, inarticulate, wooly warm situation, get a passive bass, then don't really overthink it beyond that.
Here are the reasons based on my semi-professional gigging experience only (yours may differ): your sound is gonna be colored by your amp then that sound is gonna be further colored if you have any pedals to where your bass is gonna just sound like whatever you click on and off. Additionally, the half-deaf former metal drummer that's running FOH at your gig is going to ruin your sound by simultaneously making you disappear under "subs" and your guitarist(s). Furthermore, the sheep in the audience wouldn't know a Jamerson riff from a Sid Vicious wiff nine times out of ten, so play what makes you happy and keeps you engaged!
Obviously specifics should be taken into consideration, so if you play in a funk covers band, maybe don't go with an EB-0 or Hofner- conversely, your Tom Petty covers probably wouldn't require a 6 string spalted Wakandan maple 11-band eq gospel fills machine, so act accordingly haha.
Here are the reasons based on my semi-professional gigging experience only (yours may differ): your sound is gonna be colored by your amp then that sound is gonna be further colored if you have any pedals to where your bass is gonna just sound like whatever you click on and off. Additionally, the half-deaf former metal drummer that's running FOH at your gig is going to ruin your sound by simultaneously making you disappear under "subs" and your guitarist(s). Furthermore, the sheep in the audience wouldn't know a Jamerson riff from a Sid Vicious wiff nine times out of ten, so play what makes you happy and keeps you engaged!
Obviously specifics should be taken into consideration, so if you play in a funk covers band, maybe don't go with an EB-0 or Hofner- conversely, your Tom Petty covers probably wouldn't require a 6 string spalted Wakandan maple 11-band eq gospel fills machine, so act accordingly haha.
I have only used basses in passive mode. I had a 1965 Fender Jazz I bought in 1966 and played until it was stolen along with all my touring gear in 1976. Then in 1985 I found a 1982 Fender Jazz with a neck that felt the same as my '65 and bought that. In 2009 I bought an inexpensive Rogue LX405 Pro (not Pro II or Pro III) that was made in Korea and is a surprisingly nice bass with a slim neck. It's a wide neck but slim. It can be used in either passive or active mode. I use it in passive mode because I can get a good sound out of it by just using the pickup-blend control (bass and treble don't work in passive mode) and that way I don't have to adjust the gain on the amp just for that one bass that I rarely use.
I've never had the need for an active bass, especially since my '82 Jazz with its all-maple neck and 70's pickup spacing of 4" center to center, is the best sounding bass I've ever played or heard. I run my Eden gear flat with a small boost up to 1:30 in the low-mids at either 250Hz or 500Hz, depending upon what that amp will address. I like to boost it slightly at 250Hz for live events but in a pro-studio I found out it records best with that small boost at 500Hz.
I do however have a preamp/DI stompbox that I will use as needed. If I am required to use a backline, I plug my WTDI (Eden DI with built-in WT preamp and compressor) into the effects-in/return of the amp bypassing the amps built in preamp and replacing it with the Eden WT preamp in my DI stompbox. Then I plug into my WTDI and use the same settings I use on my Eden amps and lo and behold, whatever I've plugged it into sounds like an Eden amp.
If you have a preamp in your bass, you could possibly get that same sound just using that preamp. However different amps have different EQ schemes and setting the controls at flat, often does not produce a flat signal. Fender amps are a prime example of that. And of course some have a baked in sound that won't go away no matter how much you want it to sound like something else.
So far, all the amps and PA's I've plugged it into have very reliably reproduced the sound I get out of my Eden and DNA amps and cabs. It only weighs a pound, comes with its own power supply and cost me $149 brand new some 7 or 8-years ago. It's also the only DI I will use in a recording studio to go direct to the board with. Of course, Eden all but disappeared entirely after Marshall sold it to Gear4Music.com, but you can still find some used. Lowest price I've seen was $99 and highest price was $179, which was the last price they sold them for brand new.
Yeah, after reading through this thread it seems I've erred somewhere. Doesn't seem they're as desirable as their availability would make it seem.
But my main question was answered. There's no difference between an onboard preAmp & one on the pedal board, or on the amp.
Depending on the preamp, the knobs won't always do the same thing. Some preamps are boost only EQ - they are "flat" with the knobs turned all the way down. Some are boost/cut, with the "flat" position in the middle. Some aren't even EQ in the traditional sense, but low/high pass filters (this is much less common, Wal is the main one that comes to mind but I've seen others as well as aftermarket filter preamps).
I put "flat" in quotes here because even with everything set to the neutral position, the preamp does affect your tone somewhat. Different preamps have a variety of baked-in tones that will always be present if the preamp is active. The Yamaha in my profile pic has a 3 band preamp with boost/cut for bass, mid, and treble frequencies, and it's a pretty transparent preamp (no baked-in EQ) but even with all the knobs centered, the sound when I have the preamp on is clearer and more "hi-fi" while the passive tone is a little more soft and subtle. Neither one is necessarily better, just different. I tend to use the preamp more than not because the clarity helps with the B string definition. I don't do much with the EQ on it because I have an EQ pedal and a SansAmp at the end of my board that do the tone sculpting. I have four other basses, and all of them are passive.
Sort of, but bear in mind that the frequencies on your onboard preamp won't necessarily be the same ones as your preamp pedal, so even if they perform the same basic function they won't do exactly the same thing.
I don't agree with the statement that EQ on top of EQ muddies things, it certainly can if you aren't careful but I have an EQ pedal, a SansAmp, various pedals with their own tone controls - yes, those are also a type of preamp, albeit basic ones - and then the EQ knobs on my amp itself, and they sound just fine. I actually use my EQ pedal to reduce muddiness by cutting just a bit away in the low-mid range and boosting high mids. But that's not a one-size-fits-all solution, depending on your gear you might get entirely different results from doing that. It's very much a use your ears situation, which is daunting at first but with practice gets easier.
Overall I'd say that the use of an onboard preamp is more popular among bassists who like a "modern" sound while passive tends to be preferred by those who want a more traditional, "vintage" sound, but those are broad generalities and there will be exceptions to each. If I were in the market for a bass, I'd probably choose based primarily on what feels good in my hands, since that's much less adjustable than tonal characteristics.
I find active preamps on basses useful for a few things;
At the bass level just having an onboard buffer prevents long cable runs from sucking treble and it lets me go direct with no eternal preamp needed. Having some basic broad strokes EQ also gives me a lot of versatility if I want a bright or bassier sound. It's works different from a tone control I can tweak the treble/bass balance without making the bass sound muffled. (If you want more fine tuning they have 4 band and paremetric EQs as board pres as well)
I might still use an external preamp too for effects and further shaping as well, but honestly there is nothing wrong with using both an onboard and pedal based preamp. The pedal is my default settings for all my basses and the onboard controls are for individual tweaks for each bass or on the fly adjustments. I never understood the idea that you will somehow ruin things by having multiple preamps in sucession, most chains in music in general have multiple stages of buffering and pres.
And this isn't even getting into active blend controls or resonant filters. I haven't used either, but active blends can help balance pickup levels better and avoid volume/tone loss at certain points on the knob. And resonant filters can greatly tweak the tone, resonant low pass filter works different from a passive tone or active treble control filtering out the nights and emphasizing certain frequencies, and then you can add back in the highs with a high pass. (Basses like Wals use the above features for a lot of flexibility in sound)
At the bass level just having an onboard buffer prevents long cable runs from sucking treble and it lets me go direct with no eternal preamp needed. Having some basic broad strokes EQ also gives me a lot of versatility if I want a bright or bassier sound. It's works different from a tone control I can tweak the treble/bass balance without making the bass sound muffled. (If you want more fine tuning they have 4 band and paremetric EQs as board pres as well)
I might still use an external preamp too for effects and further shaping as well, but honestly there is nothing wrong with using both an onboard and pedal based preamp. The pedal is my default settings for all my basses and the onboard controls are for individual tweaks for each bass or on the fly adjustments. I never understood the idea that you will somehow ruin things by having multiple preamps in sucession, most chains in music in general have multiple stages of buffering and pres.
And this isn't even getting into active blend controls or resonant filters. I haven't used either, but active blends can help balance pickup levels better and avoid volume/tone loss at certain points on the knob. And resonant filters can greatly tweak the tone, resonant low pass filter works different from a passive tone or active treble control filtering out the nights and emphasizing certain frequencies, and then you can add back in the highs with a high pass. (Basses like Wals use the above features for a lot of flexibility in sound)
That's why I prefer an active bass with passive bypass.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,630
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- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Call me crazy, but I've never felt it was a hard choice of "one or the other" - both offer something and can be used in various situations. As in, no "qualitative" comparison. And I'm tired of the negative rap of a battery w/active basses. When not in use - simply unplug. (duh!) Following this elementary requirement, I have active basses with years old batteries. Just stop with the dead battery BS. If you use an active pre - follow this simple rule and batteries last a long time.
To the OP's question - play an active bass and make your decision based on what you hear, not someone's opinion.
To the OP's question - play an active bass and make your decision based on what you hear, not someone's opinion.
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