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I'm trying to go analog...

Luckie

Luckie

Jan 1, 2010
1,446
28
Northfield MN
#1
I've done recording in the past through my computer, but I really don't like the UI of any software I've encountered. It's not intuitive, which makes it hard for me to make good recordings.
I've had the pleasure of working with 100% analog machines, and I really "get" them.
So I'm setting up a studio in my basement, and am trying to put together a good, cost effective, analog stu-jo.
I figured a simple 4 track tape deck and a 8 track mixer would be best to start
So this is the gear I'm looking at.

Yamaha Em200- powered mixer -$150
Akai X-330D RTR 4 track tape deck -$75

Can I use these things to make decent recordings?
 
#2
UI is always the issue with digital recording, using a keyboard and mouse or trakball is never as visceral as a fader and knob situation. That is one reason I use a Tascam 2488/2 for my work station. You might consider one of the DAWs on the market like Tascam, Korg or Zoom to in some ways bridge the gap.
Will 4 trax really do it for you?
 
#3
bassbrad said:
UI is always the issue with digital recording, using a keyboard and mouse or trakball is never as visceral as a fader and knob situation. That is one reason I use a Tascam 2488/2 for my work station. You might consider one of the DAWs on the market like Tascam, Korg or Zoom to in some ways bridge the gap.
Will 4 trax really do it for you?
Click to expand...

4 would be workable, 8 would be ideal.
It's what I can get my hands on.
 
#4
I mean are you sure you want to go analog, with all the limitations, problems and cost of finding tape and all that. Believe me I understand your frustration but there are other digital choices that offer more possibilities. Like Korg 888, Tascam DP02 and other slider, knob and button based systems that will still offer you the chance to transfer tracks into a digital system for mixing or other production work.
 
#5
bassbrad said:
I mean are you sure you want to go analog, with all the limitations, problems and cost of finding tape and all that. Believe me I understand your frustration but there are other digital choices that offer more possibilities. Like Korg 888, Tascam DP02 and other slider, knob and button based systems that will still offer you the chance to transfer tracks into a digital system for mixing or other production work.
Click to expand...

If there exists (which it probably does) an external mixer control that can control a digital environment and accept 8 seperate inputs. Then I'd really like to use that.
The bonus for analog, is the sound. I'm a bit of an audiophile, and all of my music is on vinyl or tape.
Is finding tape a problem?
 
#6
There are digital interfaces and control surfaces but you are getting into serious money so what is your real budget. Under a grand, less, more?
Analog tape is getting harder and harder to find, it is a volatile medium meaning that with each pass you are degrading the tape, keeping tape heads clean, aligned, degaused and the machine in working order is time consuming and a dying art. I for one do not miss the analog tape days, except for the pay I made good money as a tape/machine tech!
I will not get into the whole analog vs digital debate--life is too short.
 
#8
Luckie said:
My budget is around $700.
Click to expand...

Dude...

Home recording in general is a rabbit hole / money pit.

If you want to go analog... $700 won't even get you kicked in the teeth. (aside from a decent deck and mixer, you need microphones, outboard gear...)

If I were to (back) to analog, here's how I would approach it. (Way over $700)

Try to find an Otari MX5050 1" 8 Track, or Otari 2" 16 track. That ratio (IMHO) is the ideal. (One inch of tape per 8 tracks). I am NOT a fan of 2" 24 tracks, while that was the "standard" back before digital took over.

You can find a decent Otari for not too much money on eBay, the problem is the maintenance. And you'll have no idea how much life the heads have left on the machine. You're almost better off finding a decent analog tape machine tech FIRST, then get a reel-to-reel. A decent 8-track is only worthwhile if you have a tech who can service it for you.

Tape cost is getting higher and higher, but I can understand your desire to challenge yourself and go analog. (Even if it just means you learn the benefits of staying digital.)

Like bassbrad mentions, you can track on analog, then immediately dump to digital for editing / mixing. This way you get the initial analog warmth, but don't destroy your master and your machine with endless mixing, editing, mastering.

I'd recommend getting a free subscription to Tape Op magazine, then hanging out in the Tape Op forums. Albini is a die hard analog guy, and he (and his followers) frequent the Tape Op forums.

But honestly... one of the primary benefits of digital recording is bang-for-the-buck. You can spend your money on decent mics, A to D converters, and mic pre's. A cheapo M-Box will give you better quality than that AKAI deck.
 
#9
Analog is not for the meek. I wouldnt even attempt to touch an all analog setup for anything less than 10 grand and be remotely happy with the recordings. That yamaha mixer pre's are gonna sound like garbage. Start with your end medium, youll need at least a half inch if not all the way to 2 inch. You can pick up a decent otari or studer for a grand or so used maybe if you look hard. You'll need a pretty great board so you dont get alot of noise and hiss with your pres too.

I'm not very old but Ive worked with ALOT of tape in my job as a mastering engineer. Its a MAJOR PITA. Yea it can sound good when everything is firing right, which is rarely is. Digital is just SOOOOO much easier. I would never give up what I can do with a few mouseclicks than what I have had to do with a razerblade and some tape. Tape is also expensive. I still have a quarter inch machine in my home studio as mastering machine to send pro tools mixes to when people want it. Your budget is $700. Thats only 14 reels of quarter inch or about 2 or 3 reels of 2 inch. Stick with digital, youll be alot happier in the long run.
 
#10
It looks like I'm sticking to digital with maybe some analog tracking.
I was looking at Korg's d888, it looks pretty sweet at the price point.
If I can dig up a nice 8 track tape deck, we'd be good.
A buddy of mine is a pro sound engineer, owns a studio and whatnot. He said he'd loan me a couple of nice $$ mikes, which should help the end sound.
Theres also Nady RSM-2 on my local CL for $120 which gets good reviews.
 
#12
Luckie said:
It looks like I'm sticking to digital with maybe some analog tracking.
Click to expand...

For the time being, this will help preserve your sanity and your bank account.

You could track drums to a two track then bounce to digital, or track everything digital, then master to tape. There are a lot of combinations that would give you the warmth without the aggravation.

Luckie said:
A buddy of mine is a pro sound engineer, owns a studio and whatnot. He said he'd loan me a couple of nice $$ mikes, which should help the end sound.
Click to expand...

That is a huge plus. He'll be able to help tell you where to spend your money (mics, pre's) and keep you out of the weeds.

A big trick to recording digitally, getting the most out of digital recording, is getting a nice high level without clipping, which means getting a couple of compressors and learning how to use them. RNC makes the "Really Nice Compressor" which is cheap, and "really nice." (They also make a "Really Nice Preamp".)

Seriously though... Tape Op Magazine / Forum.
 
#13
Yeah, analog is not for the weak of wallet, though it is very fun! Tape is still findable but even MORE expensive than it used to be, and most of the shops I know of (here in the uk) which have a lot of stock are selling the studio grade £50 > £250 a reel stuff mostly, not much of the more affordable (realistically) stuff.

Although you can certainly get great results on a simple 4 track you'll be spending loads of time trying to get it to do 1/100th of the stuff you can do in a second on digital. We still use tape a lot at work but we have some of the best machines you can get (in great condition too) but it still always gets dumped to pro tools very soon in the tracking and then we only return to tape to do vocals or important overdubs, which then get dumped to PT as well!

As mentioned, the physical fader packs for DAW's are very expensive. Digidesign and MAudio each do one that springs to mind. They include an interface so its like a desk/converter/controler in one, but they are £1000+. Mackie and a few others do ones that don't have the interface, they just integrate with the DAW's mixer, but these are still around the £1000 mark. I'm sure there are a few for less but they will still be a lot.

If I were you I'd put your money into a multi I/O interface like a M-Audio 1010 or better then get a GOOD analog desk.

If the desk has enough features like direct outs and tape returns on each channel (or enough channels to have an input and output section) then you can work on it almost exclusively and just treat the computer like a tape machine. You would barely have to look at the monitor, just to set up new tracks and record enable/Input mon. them. You could buy a transport (hardware) box to play, record and navigate the project (those things are pretty cheap). You could send headphones off the desk and mix all your return signals from there without needing to touch a mouse!

Then you would still have all the great things about digital like UNDO, editing (if you wanted to get into it), automation and plugins that would cost thousands to even start to recreate with analog gear (and you'd still draw a blank on the undoing and editing!). It would take a little setting up but once sorted you would have an analog-feeling setup with much less cost, much more flexibility and much more fidelity (for the sort of money you are talking, anyway!).

If you want a bit of tape lovely-ness you could get a nice little 1/4 tape machine later, get it serviced and then use it as a master recorder (off the desk), then bounce your final mixes back to the computer for duplication etc.
 
#14
if you like analog, i'd say try to find a used Tascam 388. they can be found cheap, are fun, and you get all the fun of analog, but it's not too huge a risk if you don't like it...

i'm an analog nut (a 2" studer and a 1/4" studer), so i say DO IT!

the 388 works great in conjunction with digital, too... an 8 channel interface is a great 'destination' for tracks started in the 388. get some nice stuff down to the 8 tracks, then dump it into the computer, and keep going.

if you fall in love with analog, you'll keep down the sometimes painful, expensive path... if not, you can just sell the 388 to someone else. they are really cool machines.

john
 
#15
Maybe you just haven't tried the right software. ( DAW )
What have you worked with ?

Have you ever tried Digital Performer ?

Some software are more "analogue" in their approach like DP and PT.
Logic is not.
 
#17
I went back to analog after trying software for years. Just don't like the computer. I just pulled out my old Alesis ADAT. I have 3 cases of tapes so I'm not worried about that either. ADAT machines are so easy to come by cheaply nowadays. Tapes are not as easy to find anymore, but ebay still has puh lenty...
 
#18
N.F.A. said:
I went back to analog after trying software for years. Just don't like the computer. I just pulled out my old Alesis ADAT. I have 3 cases of tapes so I'm not worried about that either. ADAT machines are so easy to come by cheaply nowadays. Tapes are not as easy to find anymore, but ebay still has puh lenty...
Click to expand...

Surely ADAT is not analog :)

Yeah logic is very flexible and can do loads but isn't the 'like a tape machine' approach of pro tools. The differences are always going to be subtle but very important when you are using something a lot!
 
#19
Charling said:
Surely ADAT is not analog :)

Yeah logic is very flexible and can do loads but isn't the 'like a tape machine' approach of pro tools. The differences are always going to be subtle but very important when you are using something a lot!
Click to expand...

True ADAT is sort of an analog/digital mix. I have Logic too. Just can't get my head around it well enough to do it justice. ADAT is easy. Pop a tape in hit record and go.
 
#20
Although I completely understand the "mental disconnect" of using a mouse to drive a recording studio, I would think a good control surface would be the ideal solution. It would have all the familiar controls (plus a bit more), while not discarding some of the fancier "digital" features, if they were desired.

If you are primarily looking for the audio qualities of tape, that is a different matter.

I still drive my ProTools with the mouse but I am continually tempted to get a control surface (I am NEVER tempted to go back to tape though).

Later
Rob
 

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