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I'm wondering if it's all worth it

armywalaby

armywalaby

Jul 19, 2008
1,283
2
Wabash River Valley
www.youtube.com
#1
all this 2x15+horn 1x18 on both sides is getting tiring to load in and out, and I'm wondering if it is all really necessary? I find that I don't even mic drums anymore if I don't have to...there seems to be an obsession with thump and bass freqs that IMO makes a band too loud and doesn't teach them any dynamic discipline, because they're always loud. I'm working on putting together a PA that consists of one side 2x15 and an optional sub w/ a side fill. sorry if this wasted your time to read but I just wanted to hear others opinions.
 
#3
It depends on the size of the venue, but for indoor gigs up to maybe 700 people the right pair of 1x15 mains and one sub should be sufficient. Sometimes one sub can seem louder than two due to the phase cancellation that occurs when two subs are placed on opposite sides of the stage.

My last band carried two 2x15 mains and four subs, and it never sounded as good as I'd like. Too muddy, hard to get the vocals clear. With our new band we're using two 1x15 mains, haven't bought a sub yet. Same venues, sounds MUCH better. Plenty of gas left in the tank volume wise.
 
#8
musicman7722 said:
Yes I use QSC K12 tops and K2x12 sub and a Presonus 16.0.1 board.
Click to expand...

K10's. K-Sub and a 16.4.2 here. Doesn't sound like a PA. Sounds like a really large, really hi fi stereo. Love this setup! I'm using Mackie Thump 12's for monitors. Workable but they sure don't sound like the K-Tops. Of course they cost about one third of the K-20 's so that makes sense...
 
#10
armywalaby said:
all this 2x15+horn 1x18 on both sides
Click to expand...

I mix for my dad's band most weekends. They're a loud, hard rocking group. They rent a system from a guy in town that consists of 2 2x15 mains, and 2 2x18 subs, split one per side.

I hate it.

The vocals never get clear enough, and the system as a whole just isn't quite there. Boomy as hell, no articulation, raspy highs, just bad. I make it sound the best it's capable of, but it's still rough.

The one time the band couldn't rent that system, I mixed them on a pair of Eon 15's and a pair of 1x18 subs. I wish I had more sub for that gig, but the mix was 10x clearer and way nicer. Lesson (that still hasn't been learned by the BL)? Just because the system is big and mean-looking, doesn't mean it sounds good.

I hope he gets the picture soon; the gigs are slowly getting less and less fun, and I'm definitely not in it for the money.
 
#12
if it's an unpowered sub, yeah, you'll still need to cross over so that the sub amp only gets lows.

with powered subs and tops, the boxes themselves can usually be set to only produce what they're supposed to.

oh, and +1 to 2x15 top boxes being the answer to nobody's question!

too heavy to pole-mount, too short to sit on the floor by themselves, and if you stack them on subs, the bottom 15 (which is invariably low-passed to only produce lows) becomes redundant.
 
#14
the "external sub" switch on the top takes the lows out of it (for use with an external sub, natch) and the sub itself will only produce sub frequencies.
 
#16
armywalaby said:
so if I get some of these QSC active speakers; like a 12" 2 way top and a sub, do I still need to run a crossover between them and the board?
Click to expand...

The low pass portion of the crossover is built into the sub. The hi pass portion is built into the tops. The tops (K8, 10 and 12) have a 3 position switch that lets you select
  • Etx sub for use with a sub
  • Flat for a flat response
  • Deep - provides a dsp generated low end extension

I use deep on the K10's in small/med rooms when I'm putting bass through them and not using the sub. Which is most of the time for me. I use flat for vocals, acoustic guitar but no bass. Or ext sub for the outdoor stuff where I bring the sub as well.

It is a very practical, well thought out system.
 
#17
4Mal said:
The low pass portion of the crossover is built into the sub. The hi pass portion is built into the tops. The tops (K8, 10 and 12) have a 3 position switch that lets you select
  • Etx sub for use with a sub
  • Flat for a flat response
  • Deep - provides a dsp generated low end extension

I use deep on the K10's in small/med rooms when I'm putting bass through them and not using the sub. Which is most of the time for me. I use flat for vocals, acoustic guitar but no bass. Or ext sub for the outdoor stuff where I bring the sub as well.

It is a very practical, well thought out system.
Click to expand...

Thanks, 4Mal! I think with a set of these and maybe one of those mackie boards that uses the iPad and I'd be pretty goooooood.
 
#18
armywalaby said:
all this 2x15+horn 1x18 on both sides is getting tiring to load in and out, and I'm wondering if it is all really necessary? I find that I don't even mic drums anymore if I don't have to...there seems to be an obsession with thump and bass freqs that IMO makes a band too loud and doesn't teach them any dynamic discipline, because they're always loud.
Click to expand...

Don't be afraid of using a mono single stack if the venue is small or narrow. Besides being easier to load in/out, you will have likely have less problems with comb filtering and reflections, making your mix better for the audience.
 
#19
Dantreige said:
Don't be afraid of using a mono single stack if the venue is small or narrow. Besides being easier to load in/out, you will have likely have less problems with comb filtering and reflections, making your mix better for the audience.
Click to expand...

yeah that's what I was thinking, for all of those reasons. seems like most bands around here are too loud, so I want to see if we can stand out by being a good variety act that still jams at any volume. :bassist:
 
#20
Problem with most 2x15's is that until you get into pro level boxes JBL SR, etc (1500-2000 per box), they are nothing more than junk...and all of the above applies. The crossover from the 15 to the horn is in the wrong place to allow good vocal clarity...a single driver box will win most every time.

Good sound does not come cheap....Generally, speakers have 3 properties: quality, size, price....you can pick 2 and have to accept the 3rd.
 

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