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Improvising

BullHorn

BullHorn

Nov 23, 2006
1,838
43
www.youtube.com
#1
I hated to bump old threads, so I'll just ask.

I learned the Pentatonic Minor scale and I can play any note in the Am key without trouble. I can keep rhythm and groove, but my improvisations sound weird. I don't know what I'm missing.

I'm very new to improvisation, what else do I need to learn to get better at it?
 
#2
Well, thats a difficult question to ask. Do you mean improvising as in soloing? What style are you into? Listen to some songs and try to jam a long and try to get the right feel. Learn a lick or a pattern that you like, try to jam over it for half an hour and slowly start adding you own style to it.
 
#5
The "Jeffersonian" approach (all notes are created equal) will not work.... sorry. Some are more important than others and even that will change over time. Even though you are playing the same scale through all the changes, you will need to create a line that makes certain notes fit with the harmony. Time and experience are the best teachers.... taste is the judge.
 
#6
Practice, practice and more practice. Simple as that. Try playing along to records you know to be in a certain key, and improvise to them. Blues records are particularly good for this as most will sit around a I IV V chord structure. Don't worry about making mistakes or things sounding odd - over time you'll develop an ear and better understanding as to why and how you can improvise over certain things. As your undertsanding grows and develops you can then incorporate that into your playing. The great thing about the bass is, most playing can be grouped into patterns at it's very simplest form - nail them patterns and you can literally play anywhere, in any key all over the neck....
 
#7
Learning to improvise is a lot of work and one scale isn't going to get you too far and least learn the major pentatonic and blues scale. Then the common color note added to those scales.

In general bass players make a couple mistake when they first start soloing. First is they tend to start their phrases on beat one. Second they play a lot of roots and fifths in their solos. Do either of those and you might as well wear a hat that says Rookie. Once new improvisors get a handle on things the most common mistake is they forget to breathe. They start a solo and playing a million notes and run out of gas. Back off think like a singer and breathe, put some space in your solo and build it up. That will draw you listener in because you are telling a story with your playing.

To learn to solo you need to listen and transcibe a lot solos. Learn enough theory to know the chords/scale relationships. After you transcribe don't just steal the licks, figure out what notes and scale that is being used. Which are the notes the give the sound you like. That will teach you to create your own riffs in the future. Learning to solo is spending a lot of time recording chords and trying out scales and motif's. The good thing is everything you learn about soloing will also help you pick good notes for basslines.
 
#8
Lots of good tips, I guess, but I understood none.

I can't afford paying for a teacher, could you guys point me to the simplest and most effective tutorials a beginner as myself can understand and adopt?

As I said, I only know Pentatonic Minor in one key and am not very sure how to move from key to key. That's all I know (other than like 150-200 songs I learned from tabs :|).
 
#11
BullHorn said:
Lots of good tips, I guess, but I understood none.

I can't afford paying for a teacher, could you guys point me to the simplest and most effective tutorials a beginner as myself can understand and adopt?

As I said, I only know Pentatonic Minor in one key and am not very sure how to move from key to key. That's all I know (other than like 150-200 songs I learned from tabs :|).
Click to expand...

If you already know the Aminor Pentatonic scale, you know the minor pentatonic scale in ALL keys. The shape you play for that scale is the same up and down the neck regardless of the key your in. Playing bass in its very simplest form is about playing shapes. For example, take the shape of the Aminor pentatonic which you already know, now move that shape up to a starting position of B (7 fret E string) and play the scale. You're now playing a Bminor pentatonic scale. It really is that simple. Like I said before, listen to old blues recordings like Muddy Waters. Quite often most blues songs will follow a I IV V chord structure. So if the song is in Aminor, the chords would roughly be Aminor, Dminor and Eminor. Now play the pentatonic scale over them changes when you hear them - and bingo!!! You're jamming on a blues and improvising.... (this is incredibly stripped down tuition you understand... but that's how I learned and it did me no harm whatsoever). :bassist:
 
#13
BullHorn said:
Yeah, I understand this and the shape thing. My problem is that I remembered the scale by frets and by shape, but I acquired a bad habit which makes it hard for me to move to different keys.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense what so ever! Presumably your playing the Aminor as follows (A, C, D, E, G, A = E5, E8, A5, A7, D5 & D7). Move that shape up and down the neck, it doesn't matter were you start - you're playing in a different key.
 
#14
BullHorn said:
Ooh, very nice, can you suggest a step-by-step order, or it doesn't matter?

The thing with all these tutorials is that there are HUNDREDS. If someone compiled them in an order fitting a beginner, it would help a great deal.
Click to expand...

Start with the tutorials at either the active bass or guitarnoise links listed above. Those start at step 0 and move forward from there.
 
#17
derrenleepoole said:
If you already know the Aminor Pentatonic scale, you know the minor pentatonic scale in ALL keys. The shape you play for that scale is the same up and down the neck regardless of the key your in. Playing bass in its very simplest form is about playing shapes. For example, take the shape of the Aminor pentatonic which you already know, now move that shape up to a starting position of B (7 fret E string) and play the scale. You're now playing a Bminor pentatonic scale. It really is that simple. Like I said before, listen to old blues recordings like Muddy Waters. Quite often most blues songs will follow a I IV V chord structure. So if the song is in Aminor, the chords would roughly be Aminor, Dminor and Eminor. Now play the pentatonic scale over them changes when you hear them - and bingo!!! You're jamming on a blues and improvising.... (this is incredibly stripped down tuition you understand... but that's how I learned and it did me no harm whatsoever). :bassist:
Click to expand...

Shapes are fine and all for a beginner, but eventually they will run out of usefulness. For example, you run out of frets or you run out of strings to play your "shape" on. Happens a dang lot when you don't start every A minor scale on the 5th fret of the E string. :eyebrow:

A better approach, which I am finding out about now, is to actually learn the names of the notes that are on the fretboard. Then learn the names of the notes that you want to play. Now you can play all over the place, instead of being a robot playing "shapes" without any understanding.

Learn about intervals, how to go up in pitch and down in pitch in different intervals on the bass neck is the way to go not to learn "Shapes."
 
#18
Dsmalls said:
Shapes are fine and all for a beginner, but eventually they will run out of usefulness. For example, you run out of frets or you run out of strings to play your "shape" on. Happens a dang lot when you don't start every A minor scale on the 5th fret of the E string. :eyebrow:

A better approach, which I am finding out about now, is to actually learn the names of the notes that are on the fretboard. Then learn the names of the notes that you want to play. Now you can play all over the place, instead of being a robot playing "shapes" without any understanding.

Learn about intervals, how to go up in pitch and down in pitch in different intervals on the bass neck is the way to go not to learn "Shapes."
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point of my arguement. That type of playing is developed over time. If you start simple, learning basic shapes and note names and intervals, musicians across all instruments start to make connections about scales and modality and harmony, and how they all relate together. Ever heard of the expression "you can't run until you can walk?" I saw a video on Youtube were Gary Willis talks about learning bass using shapes, or geometery, he's doing a masterclass of some sort. Basically speaking, as experience grows so does understanding. After 18 years of playing bass this approach did me no harm and I can play in any key, in any position. All it takes is time and patience. Sadly, many new learners lack this capacity and want to dive in and expect to know everything straight away.
 
#19
i firmly believe that if you want to get good at improv you need to remove everything that blocks the music. basically your focus needs to be 110% in tune. Remove your ego (zen practice) and play from your soul.
 
#20
Snerek said:
i firmly believe that if you want to get good at improv you need to remove everything that blocks the music. basically your focus needs to be 110% in tune. Remove your ego (zen practice) and play from your soul.
Click to expand...

+1 To truly improve you need to know the tune inside out, melody and chords. Then you have to know your neck so you don't have to look at it. So if using boxes or whatever be able to move around and not have to look all the time. Learn to look at the bass inside your mind, not the one in your hands. Then you are free enough to focus on what you are saying with your solo.

Remember solos should be like talking with someone. When you talk to someone you aren't thinking of how the words are spelled, you say what you have to say. You have to practice your bass to get to the same point musically.
 

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