• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Income inequality "solutions"

Status
Not open for further replies.
True, but I would imagine in most cases for the middle class their capital gains taxes would be unchanged or minimally changed other than in a few specific instances.

If they were involved with a good amount of short term trading, they would see a significant increase (paying a rate of income +10% in my plan)

If they were involved with middle term trading (my new category) - they would pay their standard income tax rates instead of current 15%.

If they were involved with long term trading - they would pay income rate -10%. For anyone up into the 25% bracket or higher, this would be an increase over the current 15%.
 
Am I forced by the government to buy auto insurance?

Quite often, yes.

You're also required to buy unemployment insurance.

Is it possible to opt out of the social security system?

Yep - just like car insurance.

Don't drive on public roads and you mostly won't be forced to insure your car.

Don't work and you won't be forced to pay into SS/FICA.
 
No, it isn't.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation based on paying out returns to early investors from later investors input.

SS isn't fraudulent. They TELL everyone exactly how they operate.

SS isn't an investment - it has, from the beginning, been pushed as a form of insurance not investment..

If we're going to call anything where incoming money is used to pay outgoing claims a "Ponzi scheme", then every insurance policy in existence is a "Ponzi scheme".

A Ponzi scheme is voluntary. SS is not.
 
This thread is moving fast so I won't try to respond to everything people have said. Just a couple of thoughts and clarifications based on what I see from scanning so far...

Entitlements - a lot of people seem very hyped over this word. It doesn't refer to simply what the dictionary tells you the word means. "Entitlement" sectors of the federal budget are distinct from "discretionary" sectors. Basically, most government departments - state, defense, interior, etc. - submit their budgets for approval every year and the congress and can raise or lower those budgets at its discretion. If congress decided to slash the military budget by 50% next year, it could theoretically do that. Entitlements, however, are not that flexible - they are permanent government commitments to pay benefits or make debt payments, and congress can't just refuse to fund them or alter their funding unless it's going to overhaul the laws that govern social security (et al) itself. It's the budget line that's "entitled," not so much the attitude of the beneficiaries.

There's also been some misunderstanding about how something like Social Security gets funded. It's not a savings account where you pay into it, build some interest on your principal, and then after retirement withdraw the same money you put in. It's not an investment. Rather, it's a revolving door - the money that current beneficiaries can draw is money that CURRENT workers are paying in, not money the retirees paid into it in the past. It just "feels" like a kind of savings account because how much you get to withdraw is scaled to how much you contributed over your career. That's why there's a looming social security crisis - with the baby boomers entering retirement, and a lower birth rate producing fewer workers to pay into the system, more money is getting withdrawn than is being paid in. European countries (with even lower birth rates than the US, and populations that are actually declining) have been facing this kind of problem for some time already.

Finally, something I think is always worth remembering in economic discussions, as far as the US is concerned (and this seems like it's largely been an American debate). We often take the prosperity of the post-war years as the benchmark and measure subsequent decline by that standard. A number of people here have posted about the economic fortunes/expectations of their parents or grandparents. It's easy to forget, though, that the post-WWII era was a period of extraordinary and unusual prosperity in the US, produced by circumstances that probably will not be repeated. Most of the other industrialized countries of the world - Germany, Russia, France, England, Japan - had been a massive war zone for years on end. Their cities had been bombed to rubble and their populations decimated by the war. Germany, with a population around 70 million, lost 7 to 9 million people - at least 10% of their total population. Russia lost up towards 14%, Japan around 4%, France and England around 1-1.5%. Compared to that, the US, with a 1939 population of 131 million, lost about 400,000 - about 1/3 of 1%. Our cities weren't bombed, apart from Pearl Harbor, nor occupied by enemy soldiers.

What that meant was that after the war, the US found itself as the only major industrial capitalist country with its workforce and industry completely intact. Everybody else had to rebuild and repopulate for years while we made everything and sold to everybody. That meant that American companies were raking money in hand over fist, there were lots of good jobs at all skill levels, and cash-rich companies competing to get the best workers drove salaries through the roof.

By the late 1960s, though, this VERY unusual recipe for unprecedented prosperity was running out of steam. A new generation of workers had grown up in European countries and Japan, the factories and cities had completed the rebuilding process. Meanwhile, the Cold War had meant the US government kept up wartime-style military spending with its accompanying deficit budgets for decades, keeping up with the payments thanks to the country's prosperity. It couldn't last forever. American companies started having to compete with European and Japanese ones and weren't used to it, American workers were more expensive than Mexicans or Koreans, the Arab world organized OPEC and gas was no longer so cheap... and so on. You know the story.

The point of all this is that the reason we had less income inequality back in, say the 50s, was owing to very unusual circumstances that can't be repeated, unless we have a new war and bomb the rest of the world back to the stone age again - not a promising economic plan. It was not a situation that just arose naturally and something's "gone wrong" to end it.
 
The point of all this is that the reason we had less income inequality back in, say the 50s, was owing to very unusual circumstances that can't be repeated, unless we have a new war and bomb the rest of the world back to the stone age again - not a promising economic plan. It was not a situation that just arose naturally and something's "gone wrong" to end it.

Depending on measure (and most agree on this) inequality was lower BEFORE WW2 than it is now.

In fact - by most measures the last time we had as much inequality as today was in the mid 1920's.

By the start of the depression, income inequality was "less" than it is today.
 
Hmm...so what we need is world war...where perhaps china and india decimate eachother.

And all this time the idea of 'peace and prosperity. was thought to be a GOOD thing!

We often take the prosperity of the post-war years as the benchmark and measure subsequent decline by that standard. A number of people here have posted about the economic fortunes/expectations of their parents or grandparents. It's easy to forget, though, that the post-WWII era was a period of extraordinary and unusual prosperity in the US, produced by circumstances that probably will not be repeated. Most of the other industrialized countries of the world - Germany, Russia, France, England, Japan - had been a massive war zone for years on end. Their cities had been bombed to rubble and their populations decimated by the war.
What that meant was that after the war, the US found itself as the only major industrial capitalist country with its workforce and industry completely intact. Everybody else had to rebuild and repopulate for years while we made everything and sold to everybody. That meant that American companies were raking money in hand over fist, there were lots of good jobs at all skill levels, and cash-rich companies competing to get the best workers drove salaries through the roof.


The point of all this is that the reason we had less income inequality back in, say the 50s, was owing to very unusual circumstances that can't be repeated, unless we have a new war and bomb the rest of the world back to the stone age again - not a promising economic plan. It was not a situation that just arose naturally and something's "gone wrong" to end it.
 
According to census bureau and government stats ( I linked to these earlier from an NBC site) inequality was higher 15 years ago than it is currently.

According to that article "wealth inequality" is less than it was a few years ago; and slightly higher than it was 30+ years ago. The OP was in regards to "income inequality" which has been growing more obviously over the same time period.
 
It's natural to try and favor your own brood, that's not to say it's moral.

It's only a Ponzi scheme if we allow it to fail. There's no reason that we can't reform it into a permanent opportunity for those past working age to live independently. It certainly is more viable than any of the current alternatives.

Have you studied any political science to see how your viewpoints are consistent on issue to issue?

I will speculate similar industries?

Yes, I have studied political science. I got a master's degree in political science from Auburn University years ago. However, I became rather disillusioned with politics long ago. My heart is way more in music.
 
Let me get back to the original statement. How to address income inequality.

It's my opinion that without a rational system of education the US is sunk. There is no reason to spend close to a trillion dollars with no ROI. Education should be earned.

Prebirth one of the requirements should be an insurance policy for the kids support. The parent responsible for the child should be responsible for the education.

Tax credits would be based on potential ROI. An A student would allow his parent to get a tax credit wherein these taxes would be returned. And F student would receive no tax credit.

An incentive to get an education would do more than any thing else to raise the floor on income.

I think raising the floor is better then cutting the legs of people who earn their living.

Just my opinion. Having the parent vested in the education of the child is the way forward.
 
A little more than similar. ;) My dentist has 2 sons that are dentists. She would have been happy to give her clinic to her sons, although they are periodontal surgeons.

A classmate of my dad's ended up starting an eye clinic and became a heck of a surgeon. His son followed suit and his daughter is an optician at the same clinic.

Heck of a snowball effect going on. Some might call it anti-competition. I call them WINNING.

A lot easier to climb the mountain when one starts halfway up.
 
Hmm...so what we need is world war...where perhaps china and india decimate eachother.

And all this time the idea of 'peace and prosperity. was thought to be a GOOD thing!

Wars are not good. John Maynard Keynes created a system of war based economy that is the still the curse of the planet almost 80 years later.

There is more to life than money. There is a duty to do right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.