Income inequality "solutions"

[aborgman]

I like this sentence.

I also like this sentence:



But I can never decide where I think the sweet spot between the two lies.

I think they're the same.

Minimizing the overall costs to society minimizes the overall costs to the part of society not responsible for incurring said costs.

 

[Khronic]

Searched all twelve pages so far, (did it twice), and the word socialism has not shown up once?

 

[UncleFluffy]

I think they're the same.

Minimizing the overall costs to society minimizes the overall costs to the part of society not responsible for incurring said costs.

Not so sure. As an analogy, imagine cleaning up graffiti - we can pay someone to paint over it, or we can make the people who did it clean it up without pay. One costs everyone, the other just costs the people responsible.

Obviously, that's an analogy, not your original context, but the principle can still apply.

 

[Bean639]

I just jumped to the end here, so I apologize if its already been said.

1) Buy American. (If possible)
2) Get rid of NAFTA and the possibility of the TPP.
3) (Hiding) Support unions.

There is a start.

 

[BawanaRik]

I like this sentence.

I also like this sentence:



But I can never decide where I think the sweet spot between the two lies. I suspect the division between "can't" and "won't" comes into play somewhere, though. (edit: though isn't that implied by the word "responsible"?)

Hrm...

Can't and won't? Same thing in this case.

 

[aborgman]

Not so sure. As an analogy, imagine cleaning up graffiti - we can pay someone to paint over it, or we can make the people who did it clean it up without pay. One costs everyone, the other just costs the people responsible.

Obviously, that's an analogy, not your original context, but the principle can still apply.

The poor, destitute, and disenfranchised aren't just going to die quietly and cleanly out of the way.

Like I said earlier - Russia in 1917 is an example of "nature taking its course".

 

[two fingers]

Searched all twelve pages so far, (did it twice), and the word socialism has not shown up once?

Good.

 

[UncleFluffy]

The poor, destitute, and disenfranchised aren't just going to die quietly and cleanly out of the way.

That's a response to a much stronger statement than I was making.

 

[spade2you]

I wouldn't mind trying to explain. However, in doing so I'd have to get into specific points which would violate this forum's policy on not getting into political discussions. In other words, it's hard to say what you really want to say. It's the same for religious discussions. If I said what I really wanted to say, I'd receive infractions from the moderators. There is a reason why politics and religion can't be freely discussed in a place like this. I agree with that policy for the most part, too. I'm not so bothered by the restrictions on political discussions as I am on religious discussions, though. Sometimes there are things I'd really like to say, but I realize that would not be a good idea. So, you show restraint. In the meantime, the obvious really good part about all this is that there are people here who know a lot about music and gear. There is something to be learned from them. That's mostly what I focus on, needless to say, although sometimes I'll take a look at the OT section. For some reason, the OT section seems to attract a noticeable number of interesting and intelligent people, even people I disagree with. IRL I often find myself befriending people I don't agree with. I enjoy the back and forth of opposing viewpoints. Unfortunately, on a message board, that's often hard to bring about. If the moderators weren't so skilled at what they do, it would be much worse, though.

Fair enough.

 

[spade2you]

My children. And if every parent saw things this way, every child would be much better off.

When I had children, a switch flipped in me. Suddenly my life became about them. It was no longer about me. Now, I do WHATEVER it takes to see to it that they never have to worry about having what they need. For many, that switch never flipped. The day after having a child was business as usual. But for generations in my family it has been about the NEXT generation. Each one made things a little better for the next. People don't do that much any more. They try to satisfy themselves. That is why they spend their off time doing useless things rather than taking online courses (which you can do using the computer at the library if you can't afford internet or a computer.

There's more but it will fall on deaf ears (blind eyes).

That was exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. If I can make things better for my children, this is exactly my goal. It's not just about financial goals, but also instilling discipline and work ethics. If I just gave them money and didn't teach them how to use or grow it, it would be gone in a flash and I might as well spend it on hookers and blow.

It's funny how these are unfair advantages.

Imagine if we could progress to the next step of caring and working hard for every child, not just our own.

Imagine if we all had the funds to do that. Most of us don't. College isn't going to get any cheaper. Life isn't going to get any less expensive. Hell, I'm not even seeing my wages keep up with inflation.

 

[two fingers]

Imagine if we could progress to the next step of caring and working hard for every child, not just our own.

Imagine how much better our society would be (at least here in the states and similar countries where we have some control over our own destinies) if EVERY parent saw things the way I do.... and my parents did...... and their parents did. It took pretty much 4 generations to bring my family from being poor (and I mean dirt poor) Europeans to being fairly well off Americans. It takes vision beyond yourself. And I still have it. My forefathers sacrificed for me. They didn't know me. They weren't even sure if I would ever come to be. But they knew they had to try to make things better for their own family. One man can't change the economic path of millions. But he certainly can change the amount of struggle it takes for the next generation of HIS family.

So, the simple version is if more people spent more time and energy insuring that THEIR offspring were in a better place (either by providing a decent living for them, or at least seeing to it they they PUSH their children to do better), then there would be virtually NO NEED for social programs. Sure, some will always slip through the cracks, and there should be safety nets for them. But this mess of nearly half the population being on some sort of social program (and yes, that includes the ones who payed into them and veterans.... I get it) simply means that SOME parents are completely dropping the ball.

 

[Khronic]

Good.

Care to elaborate?

 

[two fingers]

That was exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. If I can make things better for my children, this is exactly my goal. It's not just about financial goals, but also instilling discipline and work ethics. If I just gave them money and didn't teach them how to use or grow it, it would be gone in a flash and I might as well spend it on hookers and blow.

It's funny how these are unfair advantages.

Bingo. The best thing I can do for society is insure that my kids are a BENEFIT to it, not a burden. And if even HALF of parents felt that way (or acted on those feelings) things would be MUCH different today.

 

[two fingers]

Care to elaborate?

I'm glad socialism has not been brought up as a "solution" to anything. Because it isn't. Clear enough?

 

[BawanaRik]

Imagine how much better our society would be (at least here in the states and similar countries where we have some control over our own destinies) if EVERY parent saw things the way I do.... and my parents did...... and their parents did. It took pretty much 4 generations to bring my family from being poor (and I mean dirt poor) Europeans to being fairly well off Americans. It takes vision beyond yourself. And I still have it. My forefathers sacrificed for me. They didn't know me. They weren't even sure if I would ever come to be. But they knew they had to try to make things better for their own family. One man can't change the economic path of millions. But he certainly can change the amount of struggle it takes for the next generation of HIS family.

So, the simple version is if more people spent more time and energy insuring that THEIR offspring were in a better place (either by providing a decent living for them, or at least seeing to it they they PUSH their children to do better), then there would be virtually NO NEED for social programs. Sure, some will always slip through the cracks, and there should be safety nets for them. But this mess of nearly half the population being on some sort of social program (and yes, that includes the ones who payed into them and veterans.... I get it) simply means that SOME parents are completely dropping the ball.

Requiring a training program and a license pre-birth would help a lot with this.

If a person can't pass a test about basic household running and child raising things they shouldn't be creating a child.

Requiring a family, food, shelter and the other things a child needs would go a long way to cutting down on any alleged inequalities.

 

[two fingers]

I wouldn't mind trying to explain. However, in doing so I'd have to get into specific points which would violate this forum's policy on not getting into political discussions. In other words, it's hard to say what you really want to say. It's the same for religious discussions. If I said what I really wanted to say, I'd receive infractions from the moderators. There is a reason why politics and religion can't be freely discussed in a place like this. I agree with that policy for the most part, too. I'm not so bothered by the restrictions on political discussions as I am on religious discussions, though. Sometimes there are things I'd really like to say, but I realize that would not be a good idea. So, you show restraint. In the meantime, the obvious really good part about all this is that there are people here who know a lot about music and gear. There is something to be learned from them. That's mostly what I focus on, needless to say, although sometimes I'll take a look at the OT section. For some reason, the OT section seems to attract a noticeable number of interesting and intelligent people, even people I disagree with. IRL I often find myself befriending people I don't agree with. I enjoy the back and forth of opposing viewpoints. Unfortunately, on a message board, that's often hard to bring about. If the moderators weren't so skilled at what they do, it would be much worse, though.

Very well stated. Couldn't agree more. I don't mind going right up to the line. But I also don't mind when someone says "Hey, you just crossed the line. Back up." I like these discussions with total strangers (with multiple viewpoints). But I too understand the need to keep it below a certain threshold lest we get into some really ugly discussions that have no place here on a bass forum.

 

[two fingers]

Requiring a training program and a license pre-birth would help a lot with this.

If a person can't pass a test about basic household running and child raising things they shouldn't be creating a child.

Requiring a family, food, shelter and the other things a child needs would go a long way to cutting down on any alleged inequalities.

Ha! I've often said (mostly as a joke) that there should be birth control in the water. And you get the antidote when you can pass a basic skills test on parenting. But, then again, that wouldn't grow millions of needy.... oh never mind. I almost crossed that line I just referenced a post or two ago.

(Backing up a couple steps........)

 

[Khronic]

I'm glad socialism has not been brought up as a "solution" to anything. Because it isn't. Clear enough?

More than enough.

 

[DerHoggz]

Imagine how much better our society would be (at least here in the states and similar countries where we have some control over our own destinies) if EVERY parent saw things the way I do.... and my parents did...... and their parents did. It took pretty much 4 generations to bring my family from being poor (and I mean dirt poor) Europeans to being fairly well off Americans. It takes vision beyond yourself. And I still have it. My forefathers sacrificed for me. They didn't know me. They weren't even sure if I would ever come to be. But they knew they had to try to make things better for their own family. One man can't change the economic path of millions. But he certainly can change the amount of struggle it takes for the next generation of HIS family.

So, the simple version is if more people spent more time and energy insuring that THEIR offspring were in a better place (either by providing a decent living for them, or at least seeing to it they they PUSH their children to do better), then there would be virtually NO NEED for social programs. Sure, some will always slip through the cracks, and there should be safety nets for them. But this mess of nearly half the population being on some sort of social program (and yes, that includes the ones who payed into them and veterans.... I get it) simply means that SOME parents are completely dropping the ball.

It is tough when every hour is spent in a desperate attempt to provide the basics for those children.

"In 2003, children under the age of 18 accounted for 39% of the homeless population."
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That would be the difference between can't and won't. Those kids probably deserve it though.

 

[spade2you]

Requiring a training program and a license pre-birth would help a lot with this.

If a person can't pass a test about basic household running and child raising things they shouldn't be creating a child.

Requiring a family, food, shelter and the other things a child needs would go a long way to cutting down on any alleged inequalities.

One hates to tread the thin line between good intentions and eugenics. Then ya see a crack baby in the NICU and it doesn't seem so bad.

As it stands, I don't think anyone has the grapes to do anything remotely close to that. I think the kicker about all of these social problems is that nobody is going to do anything and it will keep perpetuating.

Here's an interesting article about an entire family that has caused a heck of a lot of destruction over the years.
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