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Income inequality "solutions"

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I'll take a crack at a possible solution. Overall, I think the problem of social inequality is primarily caused by a lack of opportunity. Our economy does not encourage or reward innovation or entrepreneurship at the lower level, nor is there a lot of opportunity to move up a corporate ladder anymore. To start your own business requires a period of immense risk now. For example, a person with a good idea for a business, removing a person's education out of the equation (a good idea is a good idea), needs to come up with a gigantic amount of capital to get their idea off the ground. That capital can come in the form of working full time at a low entry job just to pay your bills, Perhaps you scrounge a little savings together. Or it can come in the form of hustling for investors, and jumping through the required hoops of reasonable loans hoping you qualify. Or it can be a combo of all three at the same time. This used to be a much more achievable task, like climbing a proverbial mountain. It's the American dream. Obviously, only those who persevere will make it to the top. It's the same if a person pursues a career or a trade. A person trudges through entry level positions always looking for the next rung up the ladder within their given career. This too used to be a much more achievable task, and the investment in an education and degree would open more opportunities, so it was the advantage families sought to insure their child's success. Even if a person didn't pursue a degree and instead pursued a trade or craft, they still had the opportunity to work their ass off and make a life for themselves. This used to be the harder road to hoe (jobs with hard labor and long hours and dangerous working conditions), but not so much anymore, IMO. <-- a thought for another thread, perhaps...

However, the income inequality in our country has made this mountain much steeper with some parts being a virtual cliff with mines for footholds. An entry level job doesn't pay the bills for even the most frugal worker. To make ends meet they need either another job (or a working spouse) or they fall into debt. Debt can come in the form of the checks-for-cash store, credit cards in the mail, or through a poor investment in their own health (we're still in the middle of working this part out). Everyone has a different measure for what they feel is that step where they've made it past that risk, a profitable business, a condo, or property (which has become another source of debt for many), or perhaps a home or several homes owned in the clear. Whatever that point is, IMO to get there involves much more risk than it used to, whether it be time, money, health or all three. Not saying that there should be no risk, but there's a fine line between what's reasonable and what's detrimental to the overall economy.

Those that started with money definitely have the edge over those that started with no money. I think there's a happy medium regarding estate tax. I think a person should be allowed to leave a certain percentage to their heirs to insure their success. However, as it stands, that doesn't kick in until we hit 5 million. Others can argue the percentage (start at 50 percent to family, 50 percent to taxes and let the chips fall where they may with that argument). However, I think 5 million, when combined with a person's ability to invest tax-free overseas rigs the game so a smart person of wealth would always keep their 'domestic' estate below that 5 million line. When you combine this with money that has been passed on for many generations, combined with the notion that corporations are a type of person, you create this small elite collection of immense wealth. You could probably count on your hands how many of those that exist at this level got there by sheer determination and hard work. They are very much the exception that the norm at this level.

This type of inequality is dangerous, IMO. It creates an environment that makes the very government a mere marketplace for legislation afforded to those who can afford it. This is the government that we elect to insure that the playing field is fair and everyone is afforded an opportunity for success if navigated properly. This requires fair, balanced regulation with interests of the nation at heart, not the interests of the few. So if you belonged to this incredibly wealthy group, and you could afford to buy legislation, what would you buy? You'd probably buy legislation that worked out to your financial favor. So you influence things like how much teeth regulation committees have, who gets appointed, and what powers fall in their jurisdiction. You influence things like elections in favor of folks you personally know will provide financial security for you, whether that means waging wars, infringing on personal rights and freedoms, or creating financial systems that insure you stay at the top of the mountain. You influence things like international trade with countries you've invested in to reduce labor or avoid taxes. This has been going on for decades. Each instance of this, separates them from those still climbing that mountain. At best, domestically, it eliminates rungs in the corporate ladder, and it makes the grade up that mountain practically a vertical cliff in which each helping hand they throw at you means financial benefit to them (even if these 'helping hands' are government subsidies). All expenditures flow up to them. This is the reason why jobs are shipped overseas and that the majority of 'jobs' we've seen added to the economy are exactly that. They're not careers. They're mostly retail and service jobs in which the employee is expendable. At worse it devalues life itself, to the point that we see an increases in things like human trafficking, and markets for organ harvesting in which the wealthy carve up the poor for their kidneys, livers, gall bladders, etc.

You can argue all you want that these people are the evil devil incarnate, but it doesn't change the fact that at all instances up that ladder or mountain, a person is encouraged to act just like them. All is fair in the name of profit. The idea of actually removing wealth from someone and redistributing it evenly to the people below them in the name of balance and equality can be achieved either literally (it will never happen), or through over a period of time with a different type of tax structure, set of budget priorities, laws, fines and punishments, and massive cultural shift in the way we think.

As far as taxes go, I love what aborgman has proposed. Keep it real clear and eliminate all the tax loopholes that have been bought over time. All money over a certain amount is considered a corporation. Operations and profits (no matter what country it generated from) will be taxed as such. Tax relief will come in the form of reinvestment, bonus and profit sharing programs for employees (the more employees that benefit the greater the relief) and perhaps investment in domestic infrastructure could work as well (fund a bridge or a railway to offset your tax burden). The financial individual and all their inalienable and legal rights afforded to them stops at that certain amount. Above that they are owners of corporations and their corporation will be legally treated and taxed as such. I also think this would decentralize a lot of the money away from the banks. I believe there needs to be a clear distinction. Corporations are not financial 'people'.

Eliminate lobbies and Super PACS. I like Warren Buffet's idea for Congress regarding accountability. Their pay, jobs, and benefits should be determined on whether or not they pass a budget. Their retirement and their healthcare is to be the same the rest of the government employees. If they don't like it, they can work on fixing it. If they want to run for public office their finances are transparent and public record to pass scrutiny.

I would also only put Congress in charge of 50 percent of the budget. This would eliminate unnecessary wars that only benefit the wealthy few (or 'cost-plus' contracts for your cronies' companies, pet projects, discretionary spending, and corporate welfare. The other 50 percent is determined when a person pays taxes. Let the taxpayer determine where their money goes. A person could decide (perhaps by department) where their taxes go. You could establish that a minimum amount has to be distributed to each department, or you could let a person decide what percentage gets distributed to what department (the particulars of this could all be worked out in the wash). For example, and I don't presume to speak on anyone's behalf, but I might invest more into the department of education than others ;). This money is predetermined and has to be spent as such. The remaining 50 percent is left to the discretion of congress.

I also believe that people should be allowed to vote on regulation and oversight appointees. For example, I'd like a say in who runs the FDA, the EPA, or Dept of Oil and Minerals.

Politics need to change too. I won't go into details anymore than I believe that the electoral college needs to be eliminated, and the system needs to be opened up to more than just two political parties. The reason I mention politics is because I believe the way our government has changed into a marketplace is a big contributor to the problem of income inequality.

Sorry for the long post. :D
 
Obviously, I was speaking figuratively. Let me elaborate using some stereotypes.

rich son:
First job: asst VP of ________ at daddy's company; wanted to go to Yale didn't have Yale grades so daddy wrote a check; doesn't cook, clean, or do laundry - has a white person answering the door and phone, a black person cooking, cleaning and doing laundry, and a brown person maintaining the estate grounds (his entitlements); wants to start a business, daddy gives him one; 16th birthday got a Porsche and a credit card.

poor son:
First job: flipping burgers; wanted to go to a state university, can't afford it, has to settle for community college, can't finish due to having to work full time because he and his family can't afford dirt; cooks, cleans, and does laundry for himself and siblings because parents are always working; dreams of opening a business but cannot scrape together startup costs; 16th birthday got a one month bus pass and a workplace coupon for a double cheeseburger value meal.


Rich kids have huge advantages over those who are lacking. These kids grow up having everything they want, thinking they deserve it. They then take over their daddy's businesses with that same mindset and the result is people who are ridiculously overpaid to sit on a high chair behind a one-ton oak desk, when they decide to go to the office.

Big difference between being privileged and feeling privileged. Hell, I'm privileged. My mom retired as a Senior Exec VP form Bank of America. My dad was a tv producer. I live in the million dollar family house a block from the beach, and my mom is essentially giving it to me and my wife. However, I'm not expectant. I'm not demanding. I am lucky, and I am grateful.

The idea of paying for grades is entertaining. I never really saw it in undergrad. All of those students from affluent families were bright and driven. There was simply no need for the straight A students to pay to get better grades. It's unfair that I had to study twice as much and my performance was not even close.

It's really hard to cheat your way through a lot of the professional schools. You can cheat on tests, but it gets much more difficult when on rotation or on boards.

I can't speak for the business schools. I knew a guy who was from an extremely affluent family. He was so lazy that it was entertaining and kind of made you feel good because there was no chance you'll ever do that bad at your job or being lazy. His father was well aware of his son's lack of drive. His father made sure he had enough to live on. No keys to the kingdom until he got his **** together. He has yet to do this and no keys to the kingdom. All he has to do is get a real job and be a responsible adult to get millions. Nope. :confused:

I don't come from that kind of dough. My family has traditionally been small and each generation seems to do slightly better than the last. Hard work and a little bit of luck. Luck cuts both ways, which is why it never hurts to make sure your family has a little extra just in case.
 
The idea of paying for grades is entertaining. I never really saw it in undergrad. All of those students from affluent families were bright and driven. There was simply no need for the straight A students to pay to get better grades. It's unfair that I had to study twice as much and my performance was not even close.

Stratification doesn't take place during college; it starts taking place well before. Many of those students most likely entered college with a lot more social and cultural capital than others that translated into excelling in an academic environment. Going between a state university and an elite private university can be an eye-opening experience with regard to demographics and culture. I have a friend who compares her undergraduate experience at an affordable state university and her graduate experience at a pricey, elite school like this: The students at the state university, many of whom are first generation college students, were being prepped to be paraprofessionals. The students at the elite private school were being prepped to be the leaders of the country (I mean that in the most non-conspiracy nut, "The Bilderbergs run the world!" Alex Jones-type way possible :D).

Many of my graduate school professors are Ivy League educated, and they've recounted stories to me of how during the course of their TA duties, they'd often have numerous students grade grubbing after an exam so they could get a 100% instead of a 99.5% due to the competitiveness of the elite professional schools they were hoping to attend. Undergrads at my state school are usually tickled pink if they get a B. :hmm:
 
No eugenics here. Just trying to provide the best for any kid.

But not only the crack baby but reading the paper sometimes. There are a lot of people who shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. But the have a kid.

Nah, it sounds a lot like eugenics. Who would be the authority on who can and cannot have children? The state? You could argue they were only interested in churning out worker drones. "I love the state, for they allowed my parents to have me, when so many were not permitted!". Who else is a valid organisation to select who can have kids? The catholic church? Yikes! The Murdoch media empire? YIKES!

When I was in school we had a class called 'home economics'. I learned how to turn out pasta source and how to re-thread a sowing machine. I didn't learn how to change diapers (nappies over here) and I didn't learn how to read a pay cheque to make sure I wasn't being hosed by the tax man. Maybe this would be a good start?
 
Nah, it sounds a lot like eugenics. Who would be the authority on who can and cannot have children? The state? You could argue they were only interested in churning out worker drones. "I love the state, for they allowed my parents to have me, when so many were not permitted!". Who else is a valid organisation to select who can have kids? The catholic church? Yikes! The Murdoch media empire? YIKES!

When I was in school we had a class called 'home economics'. I learned how to turn out pasta source and how to re-thread a sowing machine. I didn't learn how to change diapers (nappies over here) and I didn't learn how to read a pay cheque to make sure I wasn't being hosed by the tax man. Maybe this would be a good start?

Who has the authority to say who get a car and doesn't?

The market. Who decides weather someone get's a license to drive the car?

It works fine in this example. Why not another?
 
The idea of paying for grades is entertaining. I never really saw it in undergrad. All of those students from affluent families were bright and driven. There was simply no need for the straight A students to pay to get better grades. It's unfair that I had to study twice as much and my performance was not even close.

It's really hard to cheat your way through a lot of the professional schools. You can cheat on tests, but it gets much more difficult when on rotation or on boards.

I can't speak for the business schools. I knew a guy who was from an extremely affluent family. He was so lazy that it was entertaining and kind of made you feel good because there was no chance you'll ever do that bad at your job or being lazy. His father was well aware of his son's lack of drive. His father made sure he had enough to live on. No keys to the kingdom until he got his **** together. He has yet to do this and no keys to the kingdom. All he has to do is get a real job and be a responsible adult to get millions. Nope. :confused:

I don't come from that kind of dough. My family has traditionally been small and each generation seems to do slightly better than the last. Hard work and a little bit of luck. Luck cuts both ways, which is why it never hurts to make sure your family has a little extra just in case.

Stereotypes such as the lazy child getting millions don't always play out.

Many creators feel warmly about their creations, such as a business and don't want it ruined by neglect. And they often have an feeling of obligation towards their employees.
 
So you're saying that you would be willing to let the ****** dictate who can and can not procreate?

I wouldn't put it that way. I would rather see the market do it.

If you can't afford it, much like a car, you can't have it.

Merely requiring a couple classes and passing a simple test is hardly dictating who can and can't procreate.

It would prevent a lot of child abuse and address the question this thread is based on. Not by dragging down ones betters but by raising the floor, so to speak.
 
Who has the authority to say who get a car and doesn't?

The market. Who decides weather someone get's a license to drive the car?

It works fine in this example. Why not another?

Alright there John Galt? You are seriously crass enough to comparing car ownership (a privilege) with the right to having kids? :ninja:

You failed to answer my question, however. What is this shady-sounding market you speak of? Are you suggesting all potential parents should present themselves to a board to be rigerously economically examined? Your argument makes zero sense.
 
I wouldn't put it that way. I would rather see the market do it.

If you can't afford it, much like a car, you can't have it.

Merely requiring a couple classes and passing a simple test is hardly dictating who can and can't procreate.

It would prevent a lot of child abuse and address the question this thread is based on. Not by dragging down ones betters but by raising the floor, so to speak.

Ah yes, the infallible, perfect wonder known as "free market capitalism". That would probably work out great.
 
Ah yes, the infallible, perfect wonder known as "free market capitalism". That would probably work out great.

Let the all-powerful "job creators" handle the decisions. It is quite a superpower that only the elite few are gifted with.

I find it interesting that those who worship job creators get mad when the government "creates" more money. Both are much more complex than "Let there be 'x'!"
 
The market is not a moral 'thing'. It is, by nature, amoral. The market does not care, it just is. Businessmen are not engaging in a charitable activity, they are engaged in the business of making money for themselves. If, in the course of doing business, they happen to make money for other people, this is a side effect. Never forget this.

Some view the market as the ultimate arbiter of fairness. I do not. It is too easily gamed, and this is why regulation is absolutely critical. The market, being so easily gamed, only becomes fair when the playing field is level and competition can occur fairly. Regulation, PROPER regulation, is the only way this can happen. Can regulation get out of hand? Absolutely, and it has in places. In other places it is woefully, I'd say criminally, lacking.

The OP's question is ridiculously complex so I won't try to delve in too deeply. All I can say it is it will require a national transformation in our politics, from the federal level to the local level. While celebrating and enjoying our differences on the personal/cultural level, we need to remember that we are all Americans. We need to believe in the American Myth, but we need remember that as a nation we have rarely lived up to it fully. We need to stop looking for short term gain and work towards long term sustainability. We need to cooperate with each other, with all that entails. Social and economic Darwinism is nothing more than a race to the bottom.

Historically, the economic boom of that America experienced post-WWII is, so far as I can tell, completely unprecedented in history. It's entirely possible that, due to various factors, including human nature, perhaps, that it was nothing more than a fluke, a brief golden age, and that what we're experiencing now is a return to normalcy: a few haves, and mostly have-nots. I hope that is not the case, but the way I see policy moving and the decisions of the current Supreme Court (Citizens United, for one example), I'm afraid it very well might be.

I look at the recent union vote in the Boeing contract here in Seattle and I'm... I don't know. Just sad, I guess. A company making record profits held a city and its own employees hostage and has now extorted even more. The union faced an impossible decision: accept the contract to keep food on their own tables and by so doing screwing the workers that will come after them, or lose their jobs and watch Boeing go somewhere else where it could drive wages down even more. Eventually this may catch up to Boeing. Cut rate workers do cut rate work, and when you're packing people into flying sardine cans the consequences may end up being tragic.

But maybe that's just the market at work.
 
The "job creator" myth really irks me. There is inherent flippant hypocrisy in the doctrine that somehow "job creators" are not responsible for unemployment.

Job creation absent economic demand is literally what actual socialist societies did.
 
The market is not a moral 'thing'. It is, by nature, amoral. The market does not care, it just is. Businessmen are not engaging in a charitable activity, they are engaged in the business of making money for themselves. If, in the course of doing business, they happen to make money for other people, this is a side effect. Never forget this.....

Bbbbut on paragraph 18, page 4594209 of Atlas Shrugged, Rand says that..... :D
 
The market is not a moral 'thing'. It is, by nature, amoral. The market does not care, it just is. Businessmen are not engaging in a charitable activity, they are engaged in the business of making money for themselves. If, in the course of doing business, they happen to make money for other people, this is a side effect. Never forget this.

Some view the market as the ultimate arbiter of fairness. I do not. It is too easily gamed, and this is why regulation is absolutely critical. The market, being so easily gamed, only becomes fair when the playing field is level and competition can occur fairly. Regulation, PROPER regulation, is the only way this can happen. Can regulation get out of hand? Absolutely, and it has in places. In other places it is woefully, I'd say criminally, lacking.

The OP's question is ridiculously complex so I won't try to delve in too deeply. All I can say it is it will require a national transformation in our politics, from the federal level to the local level. While celebrating and enjoying our differences on the personal/cultural level, we need to remember that we are all Americans. We need to believe in the American Myth, but we need remember that as a nation we have rarely lived up to it fully. We need to stop looking for short term gain and work towards long term sustainability. We need to cooperate with each other, with all that entails. Social and economic Darwinism is nothing more than a race to the bottom.

Historically, the economic boom of that America experienced post-WWII is, so far as I can tell, completely unprecedented in history. It's entirely possible that, due to various factors, including human nature, perhaps, that it was nothing more than a fluke, a brief golden age, and that what we're experiencing now is a return to normalcy: a few haves, and mostly have-nots. I hope that is not the case, but the way I see policy moving and the decisions of the current Supreme Court (Citizens United, for one example), I'm afraid it very well might be.

I look at the recent union vote in the Boeing contract here in Seattle and I'm... I don't know. Just sad, I guess. A company making record profits held a city and its own employees hostage and has now extorted even more. The union faced an impossible decision: accept the contract to keep food on their own tables and by so doing screwing the workers that will come after them, or lose their jobs and watch Boeing go somewhere else where it could drive wages down even more. Eventually this may catch up to Boeing. Cut rate workers do cut rate work, and when you're packing people into flying sardine cans the consequences may end up being tragic.

But maybe that's just the market at work.

I would hardly call 29 bucks an hour average wages cut rate. Then there's the benefits on top.

Boeing is offering people a chance to make good money and prosper. They are offering a route to closing the gap this thread is about.
 
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