Infeld flats normally require higher action?

[WarmToneWank]

I was getting some pretty bad buzzing with Infeld flats. So counteract this I kept raising the action. Now buzzing stopped but the action is pretty high compared to the round wounds which were originally on the bass.

Is this pretty normal for those strings, low tension?

Also I did not really play with the truss rod given it wasn't issue before, should that also always be adjusted with a new set strings?

Last maybe important bit of info is they are long scale but the bass is extra long scale (its close but they clear the nut). Could that cause any issues?

 

[James Hart]

You need to check the entire set up. TI Jazz Flats are lower tension than most and on the thinner side too. The neck might need more relief... might need adjustment to the nut slots... also they take a lighter touch. Did you tweak the intonation? going from rounds to flats of different brands usually need that addressed.

Where exactly does the buzz happen? lower frets, higher frets?

Try looking from the nut down the string toward the bridge... using the string as a straight edge, how do the frets line up? Slight bow, dead straight, back bow?

 

[LushPuppy]

Yep, you'll likely need to put more relief in the neck and higher action for those strings. On the same bass with standard 45-105ish strings at 5/64" G - 6/64" E, switching to Thomastiks I'd need to loosen truss rod a bit and have action closer to 6/64" G - 7/64" E to act similarly. On one of my basses I even have it up to 8/64" to make them feel stiffer/sound thumpier/buzz less.

That's for me, of course. Some have the same action and the strings will be looser and buzzier and they don't mind.

 

[WarmToneWank]

Mostly on the first few frets. Lower end worst was on the first frets of the B. Though a little in the middle on the A & D.
I use a 20mm gauge 6th fret (Kapo on first holding 12th) and it does push the string up a little. Guessing might need a slight tweak.

 

[onda'bass]

In my brief stint with TI's I found this to be true, I assume this from the round core and gauges. My right hand benefits from a string with resistance, so go higher gauge or higher string height? I'll take heavier gauge for a lower setup.

 

[larrysb]

I've caught the TI Jazz flat bug too. Put them on my Geddy Lee, which made me jones real bad for a fretless, so I got a Fender Am-Pro-II Jazz fretless recently.

I have the Geddy Lee setup quite low actually and with only a bit of neck relief. It still gets a lot of that fret clatter (ie, the Geddy Lee thing) and the TI's despite being flatwound, can pull off a pretty bright and clanky tone, like roundwounds. Can even do a pretty slap with them, which is amazing.

I'm still getting used to the fretless. It came with Fender 9050L (45-100) stainless strings. they had significantly more tension than the TI's. But I'm running that one at Fender factory setup heights and a little lower than factory relief spec with the TI's. The TI's are far more lively.

As got used to the TI's, I'm finding my right hand is faster on them, but I had to reduce the intensity of plucking a bit. Counter-intuitively, that improved my plucking speed and time.

 

[WarmToneWank]

Yeh I am really enjoying them, but having a hard time dialing in the truss rod and action height to my liking. Though think this is also my taste changing because they sound really nice when you dig into them

 

[WarmToneWank]

Just question for everyone who uses TI, do you normally deal with fret buzz, use a higher action, or put a little more bow in the neck to deal with the lower tension?

 

[JLS]

I was getting some pretty bad buzzing with Infeld flats. So counteract this I kept raising the action. Now buzzing stopped but the action is pretty high compared to the round wounds which were originally on the bass.

Is this pretty normal for those strings, low tension?

Also I did not really play with the truss rod given it wasn't issue before, should that also always be adjusted with a new set strings?

Last maybe important bit of info is they are long scale but the bass is extra long scale (its close but they clear the nut). Could that cause any issues?

You need a setup when you go to a low-tension set of flats, not just raising the action.

 

[direktor]

You need a setup when you go to a low-tension set of flats, not just raising the action.

In my hack setup skills, I would have never touched the saddles. Being lower tension, the neck would need the rod eased up to go back to the same place it was when it had rounds.

Saddles should stay in same place, unless the new strings sat lower in the saddle grooves or nut, yes?

 

[JKos]

Just question for everyone who uses TI, do you normally deal with fret buzz, use a higher action, or put a little more bow in the neck to deal with the lower tension?

Fret buzz? No.

Higher action? 3/64” for G, up slightly to 4/64” on E string. Measured at 17th feet.

Little more bow/relief? Not really.

 

[larrysb]

The very low tension of the TI Jazz flats most likely means loosening the truss rod if you are switching from most common roundwound or other brands of flatwounds. This should be the first step of a setup, setting the relief using a capo and a feeler gauge.

 

[JLS]

In my hack setup skills, I would have never touched the saddles. Being lower tension, the neck would need the rod eased up to go back to the same place it was when it had rounds.

Saddles should stay in same place, unless the new strings sat lower in the saddle grooves or nut, yes?

No.

 

[WarmToneWank]

Thanks everyone, truss rod set, action set higher than normal though mostly cause I kinda started liking it better.

 

[direktor]

No.

Can you explain why the saddles in such a case might need tweaking?

Honest question, I know you know more than I and I want to learn.

In my head, assuming the saddles were ok before string change, the actual bottom of new flats would be in the same place as the old strings…in other words, with new flats that only thing that changed would be tension and therefore relief.

 

[Lobster11]

Just question for everyone who uses TI, do you normally deal with fret buzz, use a higher action, or put a little more bow in the neck to deal with the lower tension?

I've been using TI flats on my two main players for years and have always maintained super low action with only a tiny amount of relief.

 

[larrysb]

Can you explain why the saddles in such a case might need tweaking?

Honest question, I know you know more than I and I want to learn.

In my head, assuming the saddles were ok before string change, the actual bottom of new flats would be in the same place as the old strings…in other words, with new flats that only thing that changed would be tension and therefore relief.

A few reasons. Different strings have different compliance as they rest on the saddles. Some will ride lower in a groove or notch.

Also the intonation will most likely be different when changing brands, gauges or wrap types. Moving the saddle will affect the string action a little as well.

When installing TI flats, make a sharp bend before cutting them. Also, pre-set intonation so the saddles are back a bit too far. (Flat) So that when you do set intonation any preliminary kinks in the string are behind the saddles.

Follow usual set up order after string installation. Tune to pitch, capo fret 1, press down at fret 17 where the neck joins the body and use common automotive feeler gauges to measure relief around fret 7. A good starting point is .012” of relief. That’s Fender factory number. It’s a little high but a good start.

Once that’s set, take off capo and set each string to 6/64” above the 17th fret by raising or lowering the saddles. Again a little on the high side but a good start.

Then set the pickup height to manufacturer recommended distance. Fret at the last fret and measure the distance between the string and the pickup pole. Adjust the pickup up and down to the recommended clearance at the high and low string (E and G on a 4 string).

Final step is to adjust intonation so that the 12th fret produces exactly one octave high using an electronic tuner.

Play it a bit then adjust string action and relief to taste.

Optional is filing the nut slots, but this can be a delicate operation that may be better left to a pro.

 

[Turnaround]

You may need to adjust the saddles because the lower tension TI's will have a larger excursion than the higher tension strings. So you need more clearance for the same plucking force. Some of that extra clearance can be accomplished by adding a bit more relief which will affect the clearance at the first few frets, and some of it by raising the saddles which affects clearance further up the neck.

 

[WarmToneWank]

I always did .08 at the 6th fret. Better to do it further down the neck at 17th fret with .012?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I always did .08 at the 6th fret. Better to do it further down the neck at 17th fret with .012?

The neck relief measurement is checked around the 6-8th fret. The 17th fret refers to capoing at the 1st fret and pressing the other end of the string down at the 17th fret to use the string as a straight edge for a feeler gauge. If you use an actual straight edge there’s no need to capo or press down.


If you’re measuring in inches 0.08” is a lot of relief. Could you mean 0.008”?