I have a Hercules stand for about a month now. The rubber/foam where the bass is put on already has holes and the bass now stands on the metal, because the rubber/foam can't handle the weight.
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Double Bass Ingles Bass Stand: Spread out!!!
- Thread starter Don Hergert
- Start date
As I've indicated, I haven't used the Hercules double bass stand and probably won't get one due to bad experiences in the past... That said, the metal parts of the Hercules stand look well designed (as most of their other instrument stand metal parts also appear). I just hope you are able to replace the rubber/foam parts somehow... Talking with Hercules warranty services might be a good start and/or maybe you can find a material to put on yourself.
As you may already be aware, some synthetic rubber and foam contact materials are not friendly to instrument finishes, in particular they have chemical reactions with nitrocellulose lacquer and traditional varnish. Aside from the historcal Hercules plastics and foam degradation issues where the hard plastic and foam became fluid and sticky (and where the hard plastics eventually broke) and where this fluid and stickiness messed with finishes more or less mechanically because of simple contact, I have never been aware of flat-out chemical reaction issues with Hercules materials and instrument finishes.
This kind of chemical reaction that I'm describing can happen quite unexpectedly though and it is worth watching out for. Specifically I have read through the decades about finish/chemical-reaction issues with some synthetic rubber tubing materials, adhesives, naugahyde and even some leather finishes.
As you may already be aware, some synthetic rubber and foam contact materials are not friendly to instrument finishes, in particular they have chemical reactions with nitrocellulose lacquer and traditional varnish. Aside from the historcal Hercules plastics and foam degradation issues where the hard plastic and foam became fluid and sticky (and where the hard plastics eventually broke) and where this fluid and stickiness messed with finishes more or less mechanically because of simple contact, I have never been aware of flat-out chemical reaction issues with Hercules materials and instrument finishes.
This kind of chemical reaction that I'm describing can happen quite unexpectedly though and it is worth watching out for. Specifically I have read through the decades about finish/chemical-reaction issues with some synthetic rubber tubing materials, adhesives, naugahyde and even some leather finishes.
Thanks for the help.
I'm not sending it back because I like the stand. And it's a hassle to send it back to Thomann, in Germany, from Portugal.
But this issue disappointed me, because the stand has 5 star rating on Thomann website and no review talks about that. I'll have to fix it myself.
- Oct 12, 2004
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- Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
The Ingles supports the bass only on the back plate and only by two small diameter metal rods that are exposed after a little use and wear. As my Osaka-born ex used to say: "That is so very boo-boo."
That may be true related to the rubber cushion on the metal rods, although I'm seeing no wear so far after a year of use -- almost exclusively inside my house though. I've only used it outdoors once for about a week at a festival.
The rods do shift under weight, and my bass is heavier than most wood basses, so if they do fatigue and bend or break, I'll probably be able to report it here. Nothing yet though.
Interestingly, with the position setup I'm using, my bass doesn't even touch the back plate.
I had one case where both of the rubber cushions over the rods had shifted, causing the rubber plugs at the end to come off and nearly get lost, so I keep an eye on that now.
Other than that, my Ingles has been a no-maintenance item since I installed the leg spreader. But, it's only going to be in the house now that I have the K&M.
Edit: I should note, my Alcoa came to me with an original 8" wood end pin and I've made and use a 2" shorty because I'm short myself... So my end pin does not touch the floor when the bass is in the Ingles stand. Of course it does sit properly in the K&M's bracket.
The rods do shift under weight, and my bass is heavier than most wood basses, so if they do fatigue and bend or break, I'll probably be able to report it here. Nothing yet though.
Interestingly, with the position setup I'm using, my bass doesn't even touch the back plate.
I had one case where both of the rubber cushions over the rods had shifted, causing the rubber plugs at the end to come off and nearly get lost, so I keep an eye on that now.
Other than that, my Ingles has been a no-maintenance item since I installed the leg spreader. But, it's only going to be in the house now that I have the K&M.
Edit: I should note, my Alcoa came to me with an original 8" wood end pin and I've made and use a 2" shorty because I'm short myself... So my end pin does not touch the floor when the bass is in the Ingles stand. Of course it does sit properly in the K&M's bracket.
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Hmmm, my Ingles, which I bought new in late January, has detents in the legs for the screw ends to seat in when adjusting the rod height and tightening knobs... And my rods are set into the lowest detents on the legs, which still leaves my short endpin about 3 inches above the ground.
I can't find my Ingles instructions, but I suspect that the rod adjustment detents are not intended to place the endpin on the ground, or else there would be more lower detents in an accommodation for short endpins.
As mentioned, I haven't had any bent rods so far, and my bass is probably 5 to 10 pounds heavier than any of the wood basses that I've handled.
I can't find my Ingles instructions, but I suspect that the rod adjustment detents are not intended to place the endpin on the ground, or else there would be more lower detents in an accommodation for short endpins.
As mentioned, I haven't had any bent rods so far, and my bass is probably 5 to 10 pounds heavier than any of the wood basses that I've handled.
My info is only based on discussions here, so could well be flawed. Apologies for any misinformation.
Absolutely no problem, I'm glad you brought it up. I'll be watching for bending of the rods, and will report if I see it. Thank you!
I also heard somewhere that the endpin is supposed to be bearing the weight of the instrument, not the rods. Pretty sure it wasn't here that I heard that either.
Surprised to see no mention of the cruel capabilities of the Ingles.
First, the foam 'protectors' of the bottom rails failed in a matter of a few months. Fine - I replaced them with plastic extrusion tubing from the hardware store. But I'd lost the end caps of the originals, so the tubing would slide forward and back until the sharp end of one rail pushed through the tubing, and over time that sharp metal edge was making substantial scratches on the bottom of the bass. Now the bass is on its way to the shop to repair the scratches. Another headache: the part of the stand where the neck leans also has flimsy foam, and over time that, too, gives way, scratching the neck heel. Lastly, the large, black set screw in back doesn't 'stay put' when I take the bass off the stand; you have to hold the bass in one hand whilst pushing up the adjustable rod with the other while tightening the screw.
Man - you'd almost have to be Hercules to get this thing to do the simple task of holding a bass semi-upright - without damaging the instrument. One bass can't bear to watch the slow destruction of its brothers: it stands facing the only available corner of the room.
First, the foam 'protectors' of the bottom rails failed in a matter of a few months. Fine - I replaced them with plastic extrusion tubing from the hardware store. But I'd lost the end caps of the originals, so the tubing would slide forward and back until the sharp end of one rail pushed through the tubing, and over time that sharp metal edge was making substantial scratches on the bottom of the bass. Now the bass is on its way to the shop to repair the scratches. Another headache: the part of the stand where the neck leans also has flimsy foam, and over time that, too, gives way, scratching the neck heel. Lastly, the large, black set screw in back doesn't 'stay put' when I take the bass off the stand; you have to hold the bass in one hand whilst pushing up the adjustable rod with the other while tightening the screw.
Man - you'd almost have to be Hercules to get this thing to do the simple task of holding a bass semi-upright - without damaging the instrument. One bass can't bear to watch the slow destruction of its brothers: it stands facing the only available corner of the room.
I've not had any problem with the foam protectors, yet... The cap ends did come out, helped a little by one of our cats. I found them before they were too chewed up and put them in place, and at the same time relocated some other music related hardware in front of the stand so the cats don't try to get into the stand anymore. Similarly, I haven't had any problem, yet, with the neck cradle foam.
The large black-knob "set screws" that hold the the body cradles in place on mine all can optionally screw into fixed detents on the adjustment frame on my Ingles stand; I've intentionally selected the detents closest to the the floor, where I want those parts of the stand to stay, and they do stay there nicely. The black-knob "set screw" for the neck-bar doesn't have that detent option, but I wrapped some duct tape around the neck bar where I want it to stay in place, and it does; I haven't had to adjust the neck bar or any of the other black-knobs at all since the first week I had the stand...
I mention these all not to discount your problems as I completely believe what you've documented, and I wouldn't be shocked if there have been some reductions in quality since I bought my Ingles stand. But at least at this time mine is doing its job. But I only use it at home (I have a portable K&M stand for travel), and the Ingels is pretty much a fixture that doesn't get moved around much at all, so that could be why I'm not experiencing the same problems you've had.
As I've documented earlier in this thread, I did put together some extra mic-stand hardware to hold the legs apart. That the legs by gravity just naturally want to hinge closer and closer together with even very subtle movement of the stand is a glaring problem that I found right away; this is a problem that could easily lead to potential instrument falls, which I why I set out to jury-rig a permanent fix for it. It's also a problem that Ingles could easily fix by setting up the leg bar hinge point with a metal bolt-locking system that would prevent accidental movement of the legs, but I suspect these stands have been the way they are for a long long time and they're probably not going to get changed.
Lastly, I'd mention (again in this thread) that plastics can cause serious chemical reaction-based degrading of the finishes on fine woods, including varnish and nitro lacquer finishes, so you might want to watch that the plastic extrusion tubing that you got from the hardware store isn't doing that on the edges of your bass where it touches them. Neoprene (such as is often used for tubing) and Nagahyde are just two such materials, but there are lots of others. I've seen it happen on some of my other instruments (my Alcoa double bass has a thick plastic-y powder-coat finish that is impervious) from using certain accessories and stands and the damage usually consists of permanent clouding of the finish unless it is caught early enough that it can still be rubbed out.
Thanks for your thorough reply.
- the ‘detent’ on the shaft of this Ingles is a single channel with no notches or ‘stops’ like an end pin has. No matter how tight the black-knobbed set-screw, the shaft wriggles loose just about every time the bass is taken off the stand.
I’m loath to put duct tape anywhere I have to see it every day, let alone close to the bass.
- I’ve covered the bottom arms with pieces of foam from a mattress pad. Chances are these are also chemically unstable like the extrusion tubing you warned against.
Your mic-stand addition is ingenious. But I’m not buying a mic stand to rehabilitate the Ingles bass stand.
I guess our industry is simply too narrow for a company to bother making a sturdy stand that doesn’t call for alterations.
- the ‘detent’ on the shaft of this Ingles is a single channel with no notches or ‘stops’ like an end pin has. No matter how tight the black-knobbed set-screw, the shaft wriggles loose just about every time the bass is taken off the stand.
I’m loath to put duct tape anywhere I have to see it every day, let alone close to the bass.
- I’ve covered the bottom arms with pieces of foam from a mattress pad. Chances are these are also chemically unstable like the extrusion tubing you warned against.
Your mic-stand addition is ingenious. But I’m not buying a mic stand to rehabilitate the Ingles bass stand.
I guess our industry is simply too narrow for a company to bother making a sturdy stand that doesn’t call for alterations.
I wouldn’t bother with the Ingles any more. Get a better stand!
If you have enough room for it and you can lift up your bass a bit more, the Hercules stand is great and holds the bass in place well, even when the bass gets some impacts. I have it for years and it is still good.
If you want something smaller, the K&M stands are good, but you need to get used to put the endpin in the right place, specially with a bigger instrument.
If you have enough room for it and you can lift up your bass a bit more, the Hercules stand is great and holds the bass in place well, even when the bass gets some impacts. I have it for years and it is still good.
If you want something smaller, the K&M stands are good, but you need to get used to put the endpin in the right place, specially with a bigger instrument.
If the latest alteration - foam padding on the upper and lower supports - is problematic because the foam could bleed toxic chemicals and harm the bass's finish - then it truly is time to play 'eating disorder bingo' - and 'throw up my hands' with regard to this beastly stand.
No hablo Ingles here any more!
I have an old stand that has the 'disappearing cup' feature at the bottom. After holding the bass sideways to find the cup, the bass doesn't seem very stable within the embrace of those two spindly arms.
I'll try the Hercules.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
