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INSTRUMENT CABLE FOR A SPEAKER

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#21
johnk_10 said:
Don't do it! it WILL damage your head.
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usually nothing will happen...

thunderbolt said:
In addition to damaging your head, it also fries the cable. I've heard they can literally melt from the inside out because of the high voltage.
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Only if you're running a big poweramp at huge powerlevels...

RustyAxe said:
Sound? Probably not. But it isn't safe. Speaker cable is a heavier gauge, and the conductors are different. Instrument cables are coaxial, a center conductor, surrounded by a braided shield (which serves as the ground). Speaker cable has two conductors of the same gauge (one pos, one neg) that may or may not be shielded with a braid (either way, the braid would carry no current).

I agree, Speakons or binding posts are the best kind connectors because the save the unknowing from themselves!
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If it's just a bass amp, most likely nothing will happen...

Rattman said:
Wanna start a literal fire? Want to possibly destroy the amp? Speaker cable and instrument cables are NOT interchangeable. There are plenty of threads here on TalkBass that will clearly spell this out for you. A small-gauge center 'lead' conductor and a braided shield will not conduct high voltage transients without quickly heating up.
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Nahh....

agedhorse said:
Won't hurt the cabinet unless the amp oscillates but doesn't blow up before damaging the cabinet, or damages the cabinet as a by-product of blowing up.
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there you go...but this oscillation thing is quite rare...I think...

shakiroin said:
Thanks to you all for taking the time to answer.. I got real speaker cables now 16 AWG.. ;)
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that's by far the best solution.

The old school logic was to use an instrument cable for a speaker cable in a pinch, but get it replaced as soon as you can. But don't EVER use a speaker cable for an instrument cable. That can really give you a nasty shock.

Now I have no idea how this applies to new switching power supplies, etc., but in the old days of tube or solid state heads, you'd be OK running an instrument cable TEMPORARILY... and common sense would tell you, if it got hot, STOP immediately...


Cheers,
Cameron
 
#22
Bassflute said:
But don't EVER use a speaker cable for an instrument cable. That can really give you a nasty shock.
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There is zero increased chance for a shock using a speaker cable.

There is an incresed chance of noise being picked up and amplified causing hum and buzz.

Oscillation of an amp with an instrument cable (of suitable length) is indeed a very real possibility. We design all of our class AB amps to handle a substantial capacitive load on their outputs without oscillation and have additional protection on our class D amps, but it should be understood that many amps do not have this and are somewhat sensitive and vulnerable. It's known in the amp industry as an amp's soft white underbelly
 
#26
Bassflute said:
that's so cute...if you rub their tummy, do they roll over?
Cheers,
Cameron
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They roll over in a smokey, firey death.

Actually, on the bigger amps, there can indeed be explosions as the output stage self-destructs. I have seen transistors blow themselves apart. Covers stay on for these tests.

The more pro quality amps tend to do much better in these tests than the MI grade products.
 
#27
My dad is a mechanich he works on fire trucks, they recently switched their sirens to speakers, they now have 20 INCH SPEAKERS the cable they use is like twice the size of monster cable, needless to say about 5 feet of cable went missing haha, we put 1/4 ends on and covered it with stainless stell braiding like for cars we got it at a local hot rod shop, so now its the shiny one and everyone knows thats what its for and it just looks freken awsome haha
 
#29
Bouigha123 said:
the cable they use is like twice the size of monster cable, needless to say about 5 feet of cable went missing haha, we put 1/4 ends on and covered it with stainless stell braiding like for cars we got it at a local hot rod shop, so now its the shiny one and everyone knows thats what its for and it just looks freken awsome haha
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What did you connect the braid to?

Just beware that if you connect the braid to any of the connection terminals, you can inadvertantly have high voltage present on the braid depending on the amplifier type that you connect to.

Exposed braid should not be used except where it can be (definately) connected to system safety ground and nothing else. Somebody could get hurt otherwise.
 
#31
agedhorse said:
The more pro quality amps tend to do much better in these tests than the MI grade products.
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The same thing can occur with piezo tweeters, which are capacitive loads that can appear as dead shorts at very high frequencies. I've never heard of a quality bass amp or PA amp being bothered by them, but I've seen them toast the output transistors on $100 amps. All it takes is to prevent any problem is a two dollar resistor in the piezo circuit. But as is the case with using instrument cords for speakers you have to be aware of the potential for a problem to take the required steps to prevent it.
 
#32
Yes, inserting a small series resistor in a Piezo will dominate the capactive effect at high frequencies and is essential in a thoroughly designed speaker application that uses piezos.

I've seen some oscillation problems with amplifiers that use a lot of negative feedback and have pushed the design to get good spec. numbers at the expense of stability. Phase Linear is one notable example that comes to mind. I'm not going to get into pointing this kind of thing out on current products, but it's just something to be aware of and it's even worse with some class D offerings.
 
#33
To the OP. Hey man you should probably use a speakon or a speaker cable. But....when I was starting the whole bass/guitar and buying amps stuff I used instrument cable to plug everything that involved a 1/4" input/output. Nothing bad ever happened to my gear. This involved amps, cabs (different ohm cabs), pedals, pre amps and power amps. I ran everything with (ultra cheap) instrument cables for years and nothing bad ever happened to any of my gear. Lucky? I don't know, but I'd say just to be safe buy yourself the correct equipment and that way you can forget it and rock!!! No one wants to break some $400+ gear when all you had to do was buy a $15 cable.
 
#37
johnk_10 said:
IMO, it makes it very difficult to regard any of your advice as helpful after posting misinformation like that.
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That was the common info I had as a musician growing up, and what I was told by the techs I dealt with. Guess things have changed.

TrooperFarva said:
So, you're going to play your gig from behind your gear, so you can get a constant indication of how hot the 'speaker' cable is?
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No, but if you're using a 'TEMPORARY' replacement for a real speaker cord, you should check to see if everything's allright. And I would NEVER do this with a big powerful power amp for a PA or high powered bass rig - I would only do it for a fairly low powered bass rig, and only in a pinch. Big power amp separates are not something to be messed with or taken lightly, there's enough juice in there to cause serious damage.

Jeez, tough crowd...

:hmm:

And BTW, even engineers have been known to be wrong...

:rollno:

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#38
Even when I was thirteen, I looked at a guitar cord and then looked at my speakers and said, hum, that will draw some current.

I road my bike to radio shack for a pair of 1/4" plugs and over to STAN'S HARDWARE for the heaviest zip cord they had and built myself a speaker cable.

Now at 13 I managed to figure this stuff out on my own... So why does it take 37 posts and 400 threads about the same thing and still people are saying guitar cords are OK? Even in an emergency? Build two! No emergency.

Its like talking to my wife.

OVER
 
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