intermediate player in need of direction

[burrncrisis]

i've been playing bass for a few years now and i think it's time i start getting serious. i've taught myself how to play but i haven't really learned scales and such. i've been in band since 4th grade through high school so i grew up with a music background and know rhythm and such and i want to improve on my technique. i've pretty much learned off of guitar pro because that's what was accessible at the time i started playing and was the easiest and would just play along with songs. as a result i've become pretty fast because the songs i first started playing were metallica songs so there are fast songs i can play well, some songs i can playwell with fingers and i've just recently started playing higher ground so that's the only slap bass song i know.

i basically only know what songs i know how to play. my friend from work and i usually jam together but it's difficult for me to play with him because he's been playing guitar a little longer than i have but knows how to play more stuff than i do. when he asks me what i know how to play it isn't really what he knows at all and when we plays guitar or his drums it's hard for to even just improvise.

my question is i wanna know what i can do to start learning how to improvise and improve? i wanna start learning scales obviously but other than that, i don't really know what i should focus on.

 

[skeptikal]

I just found a new teacher (who is actually a year younger than me) to help me with my theory. Learning what notes are in what scales and in what keys. It helps because if your guitar player said... play something in 'C', you'll know what you can and can't play.

It's kind of boring but I feel it will be worth it when it's all said and done.

 

[stiebe]

indeed, i had the same problem as you
i went to a bass teacher who works per half hour and i learned so much

he explained to me what scales were and which are the most used ones. i've been playing 4 months with this knowledge and it's all starting to come together and like skeptikal said, it will be worth it. so my advice is to get a teacher, or a good book (maybe ask your local music shop for ones with scales..) or look around on the internet
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but i would go for a teacher

 

[EliasR]

Don't forget to learn to sight read if you didn't already. Reading notes will help a lot with understanding the theory.

 

[XylemBassGuitar]

I learned to improvise by picking a scale and then just sitting down and trying to play something that sounded cool in that scale.

At first you might not sound that great, but the more you practice this, the better you'll start to sound and the more interesting it will become. Of course, you'll have days when it bores the bejeezus out of you, but others will be highly motivating.

Once you can do this, improvising in a song becomes much easier and more second-nature.

Also, when you first start learning the notes in scales, you'll probably be more interested in the minor, pentatonic, and blues scales--in my opinion, you should start with those first.

 

[mambo4]

Don't underestimate the value of learning how players you admire do it.

it is especially helpful to get a chord chart for the song in question, and pick apart your favorite bass lines in terms of how the player is following the chords (or not following in some cases.)

Also useful is diving into a particular style (blues, latin, jazz, funk, motown, whatever) and really get into the underpinnings of it.

+1 to sight reading.

 

[burrncrisis]

i was always bad with sight reading. i know music, what the notes mean, what the flats and sharps are, but the main problem i had was figuring out the tempo. when i was in wind ensemble we would go to competitions where sight reading a piece was a component as well as performing. i knew what the notes were but i would just go along with how people would play it and listen to them. the teacher tried to teach us how to sight read it but it was always hard for me and i just didn't understand.

i'm almost 23 and i'm not sure if i'd have time for a teacher but i would really like to do it. do you think i should? are they expensive?

 

[XylemBassGuitar]

It depends on the teacher. The standard seems to be somewhere between $20-$30 per half-hour.

You should seek out a teacher if you feel you don't have the motivation or ability to push yourself into learning new things such as proper sight reading, or jazz theory and progressions. But, if you do think you are motivated enough to teach yourself these new things, make the decision to take lessons or not for yourself.

Keep in mind that taking lessons from a good teacher will speed up your learning process significantly. At the same time, there are advantages to self-teaching--you may be able to keep a more open mind for example.

 

[mambo4]

... but the main problem i had was figuring out the tempo.

I'll assume you mean 'rhythm' rather than tempo The importance of rhythm in bass playing can't be overstated. It's worth it to practice reading music while ignoring the pitch -just tap the rhythms notated. check these exercises out for practicing reading just rhythm:
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One thing the really helped me with reading rhythm was studying Latin music, because its full of eighth notes and off-beats, and the note choices are usually a simple root-five-octave.

...not sure if i'd have time for a teacher but i would really like to do it. do you think i should?

Absolutely.

 

[burrncrisis]

I'll assume you mean 'rhythm' rather than tempo

yeah my bad. i need to brush up on my terms i haven't read or practiced with sheet music since almost 10 years. damn i can't believe it's been that long. i have rhythm and i know how to be on beat in songs but as far as reading sheet music finding the rhythm was the hardest part.

It depends on the teacher. The standard seems to be somewhere between $20-$30 per half-hour.

You should seek out a teacher if you feel you don't have the motivation or ability to push yourself into learning new things such as proper sight reading, or jazz theory and progressions.

Keep in mind that taking lessons from a good teacher will speed up your learning process significantly.

that's not as bad as i thought but i guess that could get expensive if i do it a lot or for longer periods of time, i don't know if they get to be an hour at all.

i do have the motivation to learn and i really feel like i've progressed a lot by myself. i remember when playing like 5 notes was the hardest thing in the world for me to do and now i can play some of my favorite iron maiden songs. i want to get better which will only take time and a lot of practice. but it comes back to my original question is that i don't know how to progress from here. i definitely don't have the time or money for a teacher right now but hopefully i will a bit later down the road like next year or summer when i could dedicate good time to it.

metal has pretty much been the only genre that i've been playing. i started learning with a pick because that was the easiest for me so naturally i just started learning metal songs to increase my speed. since earlier this year i've been using my fingers more often so develop strength and endurance with them. i've learned how to slap but i only know one song so i don't know what i should learn as far as slapping goes. i've been more into some funk and playing a lot chili peppers songs but aren't really good at all at slap. what are some things that you guys can recommend i can do on my own? i've only just played along with songs so i don't know scales or theory or anything but are there basics that i should know? any books i should get that will help my playing?

 

[Stumbo]

Check out the TB General Instruction stickies at the top of the forum. Should be able to find some good stuff in there.

 

[mambo4]

reading sheet music finding the rhythm was the hardest part.

I'd have to agree from experience, and I am still learning myself. But I have definitely noticed an improvement in my own rhythmic awareness -even when i'm not reading - as a result of what I have learned so far.

i've only just played along with songs so i don't know scales or theory or anything but are there basics that i should know? any books i should get that will help my playing?

I'll paste my standard response to to this type of question -apologies for taking up so much space here :
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Theory can seem like a quagmire to those who are starting out, and it's often difficult to know just how important a particular aspect of it is. I will say that learning how chords are built from scales is the most important aspect of theory. It is far more useful to understand chord construction than to memorize all those "Scales A and B go with chord X" formulas.

I'd say the logical progression learning music theory is kinda like this:

1.) learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) learn the minor scale and the dominant scale and how it relates to the major scale (i.e.; its the V and vi mode)
3.) understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
4.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of a major and minor scale by building chords / stacking thirds.
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
7.) Learn arppegios/chord tones, and pentatonic scales for major/minor/dominant scales.
8.) dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Bass playing is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first, but my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics.
Even if you're playing some guitar oriented riff-rock, each riff is going to imply a chord of some kind.

85%+ of the time, you will be going from root note to root note as the chords change. The trick learning is how to do it with a groove and feel that is stylistically appropriate to the song. The best way to reach stylistic understanding is to learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords.

If Jazz is your thing, you will probably be learning theory forever.
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since you identified Metal as your main thang, you will probably want to explore the Natural minor (aka Aeolian), minoir pentatonic, as well as Phrygian and Locrian Modes. Also understanding Metal songs in terms of chord relationships can be challenging since a lot of it is more based around riffs than chord progressions. More folky or pop-ish stuff lends itself to simple harmonic analyses better...

Also, +1 to Stumbo, check the general instruction links sticky