invention of hex core

[Nic.]

Okay I tried doing a search again and now I'm only able to find one website that suggests it's not 6-sided (Geoff Duncan's Percolating: String Theory which doesn't cite sources, so I guess I must have been misinformed when I heard about this some time back. My apologies for posting unverified information, and thanks for the corrections!

 

[wvbass]

Okay I tried doing a search again and now I'm only able to find one website that suggests it's not 6-sided (Geoff Duncan's Percolating: String Theory which doesn't cite sources, so I guess I must have been misinformed when I heard about this some time back. My apologies for posting unverified information, and thanks for the corrections!

He says hex cores are four-sided right beside an illustration showing a 6-sided hex core. Nice.

 

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I wonder why there are hexagonal cores but not pentagonal or heptagonal cores.

A couple of years ago there was a company that launched doing mainly guitar strings.... I don't think they took off very well...

Main reason for Hex Core use is simple... Easier to wind / last longer (wraps grip to core) and less user installation issues...

 

[Jon Moody]

Dunlop SuperBrights are the exception to that theory.

I'll have to get a set and mic them, but they probably adopted the formula that D'Addario did with FlexSteels, in that a string with "the feel of round core on a hex" is really nothing more than a smaller diameter hex core in comparison to their regular string.

But apples to apples comparison, a .045 string wound on a .014 hex core with a .016 cover will be stiffer than a .045 string with a .014 round core with a .016 cover.

 

[Jon Moody]

You'll always pay a premium for round core strings, guitar or bass. I'm not sure why other than their claim to be "hand wound". I'll take precision made over hand made any day.

Round core strings are harder to make, because you have to "rough up" one or two sides of the round core to get some sort of tooth for the wrap wire to grab onto. Otherwise, you will wrap the cover on the core wire, and it will move around. You also end up with more waste when using round core on strings instead of hex.

Hand wound doesn't have anything to do with round core; it relates more to string winding machines that are not controlled by computers, and rely on the operator to move the cover wrap down the length of the string.

 

[quickfix]

Round core strings are harder to make, because you have to "rough up" one or two sides of the round core to get some sort of tooth for the wrap wire to grab onto. Otherwise, you will wrap the cover on the core wire, and it will move around. You also end up with more waste when using round core on strings instead of hex.

Hand wound doesn't have anything to do with round core; it relates more to string winding machines that are not controlled by computers, and rely on the operator to move the cover wrap down the length of the string.

Exactly. That is what's meant by "hand wound" and precisely why they're more expensive to make. Round core must be made this way. Hex core needn't. Thanks for helping me make my point.

 

[Jon Moody]

Exactly. That is what's meant by "hand wound" and precisely why they're more expensive to make. Round core must be made this way. Hex core needn't. Thanks for helping me make my point.

Our Round Core Boomers are run on our automated machines, so no, round cores don't have to be made on hand winders.

Hand Winders need to be used for exposed or tapered ends, as it's easier to start those winds in different places. But more than anything, new machines are expensive so if a company is using hand winders and getting excellent results, they probably don't see a need to change.

 

[quickfix]

I guess time marches on.

 

[lovethegrowl]

So its my misapprehension that back in the 50s, in the day of the early Precision basses, metal flatwound bass guitar strings weren't made with round cores in an attempt to appropriate the sonic characteristics of pizzicato upright acoustic basses? Then later the stiff hex core came out. I have no recollection where I read that, but maybe I should be careful about what kind of mushrooms I eat from now on.


BTW quick fix:

"All work & no play..."

 

[lovethegrowl]

as far as I know, strings made of steel have always been made out of hexagonal cores, and round cores are rare. on guitars plain strings are always roundcore (because they are not wrapped), and wrapped strings are usually roundcore, since the first attempt to use steel strings on acoustic guitars in the late 19th century, before the invention of truss rods.
it's due to contact surface and stability between the core and the wrappings.

before steel strings, there were nylon strings, that succeded to the gut strings when Segovia found out that nylon sounded brighter and livelier than gut. after him, nylon strings became popular and used by many, until now that they are the standard on classical guitars.

For nearly a century classic guitars have had three round wound steel strings & 3 nylon strings. Were those early steel strings hexcored?

Incidentally, I recently found out that "gut" has always been sheep gut, not cat. As someone who aligns himself with non predatory creatures & likes birds (particularly parrots) more than people, you can image my feelings about that

 

[quickfix]

For nearly a century classic guitars have had three round wound steel strings & 3 nylon strings. Were those early steel strings hexcored?

Incidentally, I recently found out that "gut" has always been sheep gut, not cat. As someone who aligns himself with non predatory creatures & likes birds (particularly parrots) more than people, you can image my feelings about that

Where'd you hear that classical wound strings were steel cored? For the past 50 years mine were always a multistrand fibre design. Can't remember what the material was though. It's almost like silk but could have been a thin nylon fibre of some sort. I'll have to look that up. Gotta be in google or bing somewhere.

 

[quickfix]

Circa 1948 and I'm quoting an online source:

"Since the development of nylon guitar strings by [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], the three treble strings are a single nylon filament, while the three bass strings are made of a core of fine nylon threadlike filaments wound with silver plated bronze or copper wire."

 

[lovethegrowl]

OK quick fix. (you don't have an ax now do you?) I still can't quote with this Windows phone which is going back ASAP! Given the round wound appearance of those 3 strings it never occurred to me that they would have a soft core. Given that metal strings for bowed instruments typically have silk stranded cores, that makes sense.

Also I think someone on this thread wrote that steel guitar strings have always had steel cores?

Here's Johnny.....(can't stop!)

 

[quickfix]

OK quick fix. I still can't quote with this Windows phone which is going back ASAP! Given the round wound appearance of those 3 strings it never occurred to me that they would have a soft core. Given that metal strings for bowed instruments typically have strands silk, that makes sense.

Also I think someone on this thread wrote that steel guitar strings have always had steel cores?

Here's Johnny.....(can't stop!)

Yes, steel guitar strings have always had steel cores. But you weren't talking about steel strings, or steel string guitars. You were talking about the wound strings on a classical guitar. They've never been steel cored.

 

[quickfix]

Classical guitars aren't built to take the stresses of steel string tension. They are very lightly built.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

I'll have to get a set and mic them, but they probably adopted the formula that D'Addario did with FlexSteels, in that a string with "the feel of round core on a hex" is really nothing more than a smaller diameter hex core in comparison to their regular string.

But apples to apples comparison, a .045 string wound on a .014 hex core with a .016 cover will be stiffer than a .045 string with a .014 round core with a .016 cover.

I have yet to try SuperBrights but they are on my radar. I have tried Roundcore Boomers and I like them, but the verdict is out whether or not I prefer them over Sunbeams. Sunbeams seemed a bit too wimpy sounding at times and the Roundcore boomers don't as much, but I lost some overtones that seemed to really energize the sound with the DRs. I tried FlexSteels and absolutely hated them. Many years ago when DR had quality control problems D'Addarios were my favorites, namely Slowounds. However these days DRs and GHS are my favorites. I will not use D'Addarios anymore. LaBellas are nice for flatwounds and tapewounds, but GHS Precision Flats have more thump and mojo. I used Ken Smith Compressors for fretless for a long time until I realized GHS Pressurewounds were practically identical without the tapered core. I've tried lots of strings over the years, some that are no longer made like Trace Elliot taper cores and Alembic compression wound. I have started to find favorites for every application, but new strings keep coming out that pique my curiosity. General I find the feel of roundcore strings is more preferable for me, but sometimes they don't seem to be tight enough...it depends on the bass and how it is setup. My vote is for GHS to make the best of all worlds and develop a roundcore pressurewound string. In the meantime I still use Pressurewounds on my fretless, and I have them coming with my new almost-complete custom Kinal PJ5. But I still want to try Dunlop SuperBrights and the new DR Pure Blues. In my stable each bass has its own strings because there is no point to having more than one axe if they are all the same.

 

[damos]

Hello
I’m almost sure than the first rotosound swing bass 66 that I have used in the 80’s were roundcore strings and were not stiffer like the actual roto 66 , it’s Daddario that introduces the hex core technology in string
Thanks

 

[HaphAsSard]

Hello
I’m almost sure than the first rotosound swing bass 66 that I have used in the 80’s were roundcore strings and were not stiffer like the actual roto 66 , it’s Daddario that introduces the hex core technology in string
Thanks

A number of innovations in steel-core string making were reintroduced in the late '60s or '70s and are now commonly attributed to, or claimed by, modern companies that started back then, but actually date back to decades prior: they'd just fallen by the wayside in the intervening years, for various reasons (wartime shortages and whatnot).

One such innovation was the hexagonal steel core. This Curt Mangan page
What Guitar Strings are do I need?
says "the string industry converted to hex-core beginning in the mid 1970’s".

...Which doesn't mean that is when it was actually invented.

An interesting source is guitar brand catalogues from 1930 onwards, as can be browsed here
Catalogs - Acoustic Music
and conveniently summarised here:
String history – what did guitar players use in the pre-war era? - Online Custom Music Production Services by Tinderwet Studios
The author assumes quite a bit, but his research is valuable nonetheless.

For example, as pointed out in the article, first mentions of hex-core strings are surprisingly old, as per this old C. F. Martin & Co. catalogue: bronze-wound (and polished, probably meaning groundwound, to an extent) strings "on special hexagon steel wire" (page 29 of original booklet, p. 16 of pdf file) were already a thing, back in July 1935 (sic - nineteen thirty-five).
___

Now, electric bass guitar strings? Yeah, as far as I've read they were invariably roundcore until the aforesaid mid-Seventies.*
Which is hilarious considering how many swear that current La Bella "original" 1954s and GHS Precision flats are made exactly as they came back in the Sixties.
(I would only trust Dogal Traditional flats, and perhaps Optima RB flats, to be made just like their respective counterparts of way back when.)



* The industry didn't entirely convert to hex, and DR Strings (est. 1989) weren't the only exception: Fender flatwounds for example, except for the Studio Bass Flats from the Eighties, were still roundcore right until 2008, when the last Mexican-made version was discontinued.

 

[damos]

Thanks
roto66 strings used hexcore when they had to change machines in the late 80s but before that roto were not stiffer like now

 

[Iristone]

I'd hope Roto will go back to the 43-106 gauges: at least they look more balanced tension-wise on paper. La Bella 43-60-82-104 and Thomastik 43-56-70-106 (short and extra long) look better on paper.
Rotos seem to have gone through multiple revisions: the current aluminium-packed ones seem to be smoother than the previous paper-packed ones. Good thing is they still sound great.