Is a conductor really necessary in classical performances?

[tkozal]

thanks for that clip, I am Slatkin fan!

wow, what a stunning performance of that piece!

edit: it's very rare that a performance of an old standard like that can give me chills, but that did..that was also one of the slowest performace of this I have heard..but it worked perfectly.

 

[Dan Mee]

This is possibly one of the best examples why a large group of musicians needs a conducter, whether its an orchestra, a large choir, a big band, a show band, a marching band, whatever.

If you look at the score for this peice there are so many bars of odd time signatures, and a large amount of rubato passages. To play this in a full string orchestra, there needs to be someone showing where each beat falls, showing where to bring notes off, showing where the dynamics fall, everything. The conductor, should by nature know every note in that piece, by heart, so if someone is wrong he'll hear it.

I play in a big band, and when we've rehearsed without the MD its incredibly hard, unless someone is able to call of notes and each section leader knows what their section is supposed to be doing. Having each little section reherased so every note is spot on is one of the biggest parts of conducting, interpreting the written music into something that is heard and felt, such as the Barber Op. 11. If one person is out of tune, the conductor should be able to tell whether the player is sharp or flat, so make sure everyone is sounding their best.

All of this is practically impossible without a conductor, or director.

watch the section from about 6:30, until about 7:50, and you'll understand why a conductor is needed.

 

[Pacman]

This is possibly one of the best examples why a large group of musicians needs a conducter, whether its an orchestra, a large choir, a big band, a show band, a marching band, whatever.

Well, it's rare that a big band or show band use a conductor - they rarely need one!

 

[BassChuck]

Well, it's rare that a big band or show band use a conductor - they rarely need one!

That's been my experience. While there is generally someone cueing stuff every now and then, that's hardly conducting.

Once tempo is used as an expressive element, you do need a conductor, but that is not often the case with Jazz and rock music.

 

[tkozal]

All theater bands (B'Way and such) here have a conductor, who also must coordinate the music with stage movements....

 

[marcray]

Well, it's rare that a big band or show band use a conductor - they rarely need one!

usually lead players, band leaders, are the "conductor" when I think of big band... you'll always see the band looking at for instance, Tommy Dorsey, Miller, even if it's for the simple time gestures, finger click etc... at least what I can remember...

true, broadway always has a conductor, ballet, opera, doesn't matter how many performances of The Nutcracker that the NYC ballet performs every year, that conductor is always there keeping everyone on their toes...

 

[Pacman]

usually lead players, band leaders, are the "conductor" when I think of big band... you'll always see the band looking at for instance, Tommy Dorsey, Miller, even if it's for the simple time gestures, finger click etc... at least what I can remember...

Well, sure, but that's not conducting. That's giving cues. I've been playing in big bands for about 25 years now (professionally), and like I said, it's extremely rare that there is a conductor.

 

[gottawalk]

I have never been a part of a traditional classical performance, but I write music that involves cello, doublebass, viola, and violin. I have never played live with this music, but when I play with these musicians, they learn the piece, and I don't have to conduct for them (and I wouldn't). Coming from a band-oriented perspective in music, I expect the people performing a piece to know it. So I don't really get the need for a conductor.

From what you've described, you're talking chamber music with a small group of musicians, and yes; they usually will cue and conduct themselves through gestures and movements of their instruments towards each other. I've play chamber and other than taking some musical direction from my professor about the piece and style, or from a composer like yourself as far as what the composer is trying to convey inside the piece, once it starts we're pretty much "flying solo", so to speak.

I realize that working with a large group like an orchestra presents some complications, and the most obvious one is making sure everybody stays in time with each other. But to me, it's far easier to just listen to the people I'm playing with, rather than trying to play in time with a bouncing baton. In terms of dynamics and expression, shouldn't the orchestra playing a piece know how they should be playing before they perform it live? Is it not ridiculous that such talented people need to be told during a performance when to diminuendo or when they should be playing pizzicato?

A conductor isn't just a metronome standing up front waving a baton. The conductor of most symphony orchestras is also the music director and will pick the music for the concerts and then will take the orchestra as his/her "instrument" and play that piece with his/her own interpretations and dynamics and tempos. You will find in listening to the same orchestrated piece, conducted by different conductors, will have subtle nuances and sometimes out-right blatent differences even though the music on the page is exactly the same each time it's played.

A good conductor will "play" the orchestra like you would a bass or any other instrument.
A bad conductor will just be a metronome.
An orchestra without a conductor is just a dry version of the printed page...

 

[Hawaii Islander]

Well, sure, but that's not conducting. That's giving cues. I've been playing in big bands for about 25 years now (professionally), and like I said, it's extremely rare that there is a conductor.

I grew up listening and watching Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller as a kid (thanks gandma!). They conducted their orchestra (big band) everytime I saw them on TV.

 

[Pacman]

Not exactly real big bands. Not exactly real conducting. Just because I stand in front of a group of musicians and flap my arms (or wave a stick) doesn't make it conducting.


Edit:

In case you missed it, here's the Welk band without conducting:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cZaPk4g8Slk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CqKZXP6CGbI&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvh6Qr9NGek&feature=related

 

[BassChuck]

I grew up listening and watching Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller as a kid (thanks gandma!). They conducted their orchestra (big band) everytime I saw them on TV.

You missed Xavier Cugat, he usually held his dog while "conducting". Welk, and Mitch Miller were just front men.

 

[tkozal]

Music that has a driving 4/4 is VERY different than classical or some theater works, much easier to be without a conductor when there is a driving rhythm as part of the tune....(and I am including the likes of Welk in that)