Is Ampeg done for?

[fdeck]

"Legacy" is both a blessing and a curse. It doesn't matter whether legacy is 1 year old or 40. If it defines the expectations for a product, then every subsequent product has to meet the same expectations. To meet those expectations, new products have to either be identical to the old ones, or credibly behave the same way.

If they do those things, then they have a market niche that nobody else can fill. Anybody else who claims to re-create the legacy sound will constantly be on the defensive about it.

If they don't, then they give up that niche and have to take their chances in the broader market that doesn't recognize their brand as special.

Given those things, sticking with a legacy sound actually seems like a pretty good idea. And if Yamaha wants to innovate and take their chances in the broader market, they don't have to mess with the Ampeg brand. You can see this all over the place, when a company wants to enter a new market segment, they come out with a new brand, or at least a new "series" within a brand.

The car makers have struggled with the same problem. During the oil crisis, Cadillac had to convince the public that a K car with a Cadillac badge is still a Cadillac. Today, during an oil glut, BMW has to convince the public that a gigantic SUV is still a BMW.

 

[3bc]

I think Ampeg does what Ampeg does because they keep selling equipment and people like it. They don't need to be like GK and Bergantino and Darkglass... they have their own thing and people like it. Why do they need to ruin a good thing?

IMO This is short sighted. People have been saying the same thing about Harley Davidson for decades, which is an american institution and was more dominant in its market than ampeg was. "Don't change it if it ain't broke, you can't mess with that heritage, harley owners know what they want, etc." But catering to a core, niche demographic that is slowly dying off while not keeping up with the times has already pushed Harley in to BK once, and it's heading that way again as they shed marketshare and shed employees.

I'm a big yamaha fan. I've owned everything from guitars, studio monitors, motorcycles, home theater equipment, etc. from them. But they are a very no-nonsense company. They bought out Sequential, saw the writing on the wall for analog synthesizers in the late 80's, and just wound the company down. They did the same thing with their own analog synthesizers. the CS80 is THE holy grail of synthesizers. One in good condition could easily sell for $40,000 or more. But when they realized that as a product, it was destined to be a niche thing with little upside, they stopped making them. I know it seems crazy now, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Ampeg brand go through some serious stuff in 5-10 years because it's not a great investment for them.

 

[Gustopher]

IMO This is short sighted. People have been saying the same thing about Harley Davidson for decades, which is an american institution and was more dominant in its market than ampeg was. "Don't change it if it ain't broke, you can't mess with that heritage, harley owners know what they want, etc." But catering to a core, niche demographic that is slowly dying off while not keeping up with the times has already pushed Harley in to BK once, and it's heading that way again as they shed marketshare and shed employees.

I'm a big yamaha fan. I've owned everything from guitars, studio monitors, motorcycles, home theater equipment, etc. from them. But they are a very no-nonsense company. They bought out Sequential, saw the writing on the wall for analog synthesizers in the late 80's, and just wound the company down. They did the same thing with their own analog synthesizers. the CS80 is THE holy grail of synthesizers. One in good condition could easily sell for $40,000 or more. But when they realized that as a product, it was destined to be a niche thing with little upside, they stopped making them. I know it seems crazy now, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Ampeg brand go through some serious stuff in 5-10 years because it's not a great investment for them.

That's fair, but without sales figures what do we know? Are they on the decline sales and profit wise? Harley certainly was.

 

[InhumanResource]

as a guy who had to use one for years on a blues gig any amp will sound better and be lighter

That's why they make vanilla and chocolate I guess. I love them and used their equipment for years in different settings but I don't want to carry all that stuff around anymore.

 

[3bc]

I'd guess it's because Mesa customers prefer what Mesa is offering.

Ampeg, far from being "done for"continues to successfully sell a mix of old and new technology. So I'd think Ampeg's customers prefer what Ampeg is offering.

Point being, if you're not in the market for a given brand of amp, why would you care about what the company is doing - or what others may think about it anyway?

I've got an acquaintance who is perpetually criticizing BMWs. He doesn't drive one. He isn't interested in owning or driving one. He's bern behind the wheel of one maybe twice in his entire lifetime. But he'll get on his soapbox about how they're "overrated" and "overpriced" at the drop of a hat. And it's not even a case of green eyes. He could go out and cut a personal check for six of them tomorrow without so much as a whimper from his bank account. But he routinely throws out questions like yours. I don't get it.

In the absence of any breaking news about Ampeg's business I guess I don't get your question either. Fender(sorry to drag them up but I think it's germane) have manufactured and successfully marketed what's effectively been the same two guitars and basses for the better part of a century with no end in sight. Are they "done for" despite that? I doubt it. The Tele/Strat/PB/JB quartet is still going strong and finding a place in the hearts of a new generation of players. Tube amps and analog gear still proliferate despite the supposed superiority of solid-state and digital. So much so that accurate vintage reissues are becoming more and more commonplace.

As long as there's a market for the so-called lead sled, somebody will continue to build them. And the fact Ampeg is still making them (and Fender has joined the heavy tube fray with its Bassman and Superbassman offerings) tells me it's something more being done than done for.

Hear ya. I would edit my original post if I could. Not to take back anything I've said, but to clarify my point of view as coming from someone who has used and loved the brand. I have my own opinion about what sounds good, what's likely to sell good moving forward, etc. I don't speak for everyone who has an affinity for ampeg. But I'm not ragging on a company I have no experience with, or wouldn't want to embrace again at some point. And I'm not doing it to be a contrarian.

 

[BassVibes]

100%. I would argue that amplification technology and guitar technology are like comparing apples and oranges though. A centuries old stradivarius is probably the most precious musical instrument on the planet because instruments are inherently about artisan craftsmanship, and amps are inherently about the technology behind them. Ampeg fridge was designed at a time when technology limitations were everywhere - PA systems, home theater speakers, the vinyl medium, etc. People romanticize how things sounded "back in the day", but there's a reason why even old timers like a Paul McCartney are releasing modern "hi fi" sounding music and not music that is riddled with sonic limitations.

There are no sonic limitations, just limitations of imagination. There are plenty of 'new' bands out there who use old gear and vice versa. It's just about the sound you want for the song/band. Simple

 

[ihixulu]

Ok, here's one from 2018:

That's some random guy covering an oldie on a cheesy talent show. Not questioning "Smoke on the Water"'s status as an iconic song in the history of hard rock, or that it holds a special place in the hearts of many. That doesn't preclude it being dated.

People still dance the Charleston but it would be ridiculous to consider that to be relevant to contemporary developments in dancing.

This is OT anyway, it's clear we hold different takes on this silly topic, let's let the thread go back to its native silly topic

 

[brianrost]

 

[g-dude]

Might have bigger problems if a fifteen pound head is too much for you .

Ha, I broke my back when I was in my early twenties and blew up one of my knees in a motorcycle accident when a car pulled out in front of me when they were looking at their phone about 10 years ago. For me (and lots of others with bad backs) every pound you can shave off is a great thing!

Yikes. I think that qualifies as a big problem...and in a way, you're very lucky despite the bad luck. Sort of like not winning the jackpot on a scratch off lottery ticket, but consistently getting a free ticket every time you play.

 

[g-dude]

Maybe not them, Harley's are still built though

Well, not as many now. They're reducing production due to the fact that they are increasingly being perceived as a noisy motorcycle with an engine that goes, "okboomer okboomer okboomer okboomer"

 

[3bc]

That's fair, but without sales figures what do we know? Are they on the decline sales and profit wise? Harley certainly was.

Correct. It's a lot of speculation and anecdotal evidence. I go to fewer shows than I did in my twenties now that I have young kids. But I still went to probably 2 or so rock concerts a month in 2019. And these run the gamut from big stadium shows to small club gigs with 3-4 bands per bill to outdoor festival events. I probably went to another 10+ intimate live music events in restaurants with a jazz or blues trio kind of thing. Even at the big rock concerts ampeg rigs were a rare sight. Variety of different kinds of rigs. The small upscale rigs were basically always class D/neo little things. The poor touring bands usually seem to have a hodgepodge. Maybe an ampeg cab and whatever mismatched class a/b head, but you get the sense that rig was designed by accident/necessity by purchasing the loudest dirt cheap stuff you got used at the local GC where these musicians live. And lets be honest, the resale value of an ampeg 4x10 is rubbish. The "professional" rigs were the most likely to be ampeg, but even then i saw a lot of aguilar, mesa boogie, an ashdown maybe, i think muse was using Marshall etc. I didn't see any bands that had 4 8x10's or anything like that you might see going to an AC/DC concert or something like that, the number of bands who do that even for show nowadays seems to be almost 0. I'd guess ampeg was less than 25% of what i saw on stage, and that has to be a big step back from what you would have seen in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[Bassiclees]

OP: try an 810. Doing so will resolve your query immediately.
In all fairness, I would never ever gig with it.
Moreso, I added feet on the side and it sits horizontally.
Nonetheless, it is glorious.

 

[g-dude]

Plug your P bass into an all tube Ampeg V-4b, play the bass line to smoke on the water along to the song at full blast, and THEN tell me Ampeg is "done."

Counterpoint: I was at PT yesterday, and my physical therapist asked me "what's the name of this song".

It was Paradise City by GNR. There's a time coming soon where Smoke on the Water will have as much cultural relevancy as the Dave Clark Five.

 

[3bc]

Yikes. I think that qualifies as a big problem...and in a way, you're very lucky despite the bad luck. Sort of like not winning the jackpot on a scratch off lottery ticket, but consistently getting a free ticket every time you play.

Correct. I have both the best and worst luck in the world. I used to assume it's because I used to be a big risk taker that I'd run into great and terrible outcomes. I've since mellowed out a lot, and my luck is still every bit as wild as before.

 

[agedhorse]

Yamaha is one of my all time favorite companies based on their engineering and manufacturing resources. Just a look at their history of success in multiple markets (pro audio, recording, keyboards, acoustic pianos, guitar and bass, DSP, drums, etc.).

I am fascinated at what Yamaha might be able to accomplish with Ampeg, but tone will tell which direction they might take.

 

[3bc]

OP: try an 810. Doing so will resolve your query immediately.

Been there, done that. JMO only, but the SWR 8x10 made the ampeg 8x10 sound like a toy and I owned both simultaneously in the early 2000's. and I have played several other rigs that sound as good or better on top of that one.

 

[g-dude]

Ampeg isn't chasing anything, because the industry isn't done chasing Ampeg. When there were still concerts I'd guess that the big black monolith was on 9/10 stages. Ampeg is good enough to be polarizing. You are either with it or against it. But if you're against it, it isn't the companies fault for doing what they have done well. It's your own good taste. It's like, I hate The Beatles, but I don't ask why they were popular. They were good, just not my taste.

Well, all I know is that back when I was a teenager, before I played the bass, the one thing I noticed was Ampeg on stage...

No wait, that's not right. It was Hartke. I almost went straight to learning the bass because I thought it was awesome that even the speaker cones were METAL.

Ok, here's one from 2018:

Yeah, Russia sort of has this lingering reputation of being WAY behind the times - like still liking hair metal deep into the 90s and beyond.

Rightly or wrongly, saying "look, here's someone in Russia" doesn't really bolster the case for cultural relevance.

Back in college I dated someone whose family fled the Soviet Union. Apparently in the USSR, Queen was very popular over...and yet the idea that Freddy Mercury could have been a homosexual was never even entertained. It was like trying to divide by zero. You might find it hard to believe, but when you look at their attitudes today, it reconciles pretty well with ignoring what was obvious to everyone in the west.

 

[Acidic Pool]

I used to use a PF-500 that I liked alot, good balance between sturdy and light. Strong classic sound and I liked it's compressor. It broke down eventually tho and is sitting in a closet somewhere.

 

[3bc]

Yamaha is one of my all time favorite companies based on their engineering and manufacturing resources. Just a look at their history of success in multiple markets (pro audio, recording, keyboards, acoustic pianos, guitar and bass, DSP, drums, etc.).

I am fascinated at what Yamaha might be able to accomplish with Ampeg, but tone will tell which direction they might take.

Great pianos, worlds greatest workstation keyboards, and a history of the the worlds greatest drum sets. The live maple kits you see with the Dave Weckl's of the world, the number of albums cut with the recording custom/birch kits, etc. Yamaha has continued to innovate. Even on their motorcycles, their cross plane triple motor is unbelievable. Sounds like a sewing machine so it won't satisfy the harley crowd, but it's an incredible feat of engineering. I am one of the lone folks who are sad not to see anything new out of ampeg since the sale.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Over the last 30 years I have played through lots of different rigs, showing up and plugging in to whatever a venue provided.
But I've only owned Ampeg
The one thing they've always done well, across their whole product line is consistency. An Ampeg always sounds, well....Ampeggy.
Even my little BA-108 practice amp has it.
I dunno...I think I'll expire before they do!