I say go for it. If you find that you don't have enough wattage, you could always add another power amp. QSC and the like are easy to find on the cheap.
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Is double the speaker worth half the watts?
- Thread starter MVE
- Start date
Having higher cab impedance will increase your damping factor, which is a huge boon.
Yes halving the watts means -3 db, doubling the speakers means +3db, but watts don't work exactly that way. More speakers move more air, which is MORE BETTER.
Do stack the cabs vertically.
Yes halving the watts means -3 db, doubling the speakers means +3db, but watts don't work exactly that way. More speakers move more air, which is MORE BETTER.
Do stack the cabs vertically.
See the second sentence in his original post. He is looking at running *TWO* 4-ohm cabs in series, which would be an 8-ohm load.
I never thought it would work for me either until all the lightweight bass cabs started popping up years ago. With my Shuttlemax 12.2, I can run two 4 ohm cabs, ( Schroeder 15PL ) when I need to move more air. The schlepp is easy since the cabs are very light, and I don't mind it at all.
If you love the rig are committed to it and you absolutely want a 2nd 2x12, why not replace the 12's on the original cab with 16ohm ones (so cab= 8ohm), and then get your second cab as 8ohm. If you're dragging two cabs, then I'd rather have the full power available.
I love having two 2x12 cabs, so it can be modular as needed depending on the venue.
I love having two 2x12 cabs, so it can be modular as needed depending on the venue.
I’m not sure, but I saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to GEICO.
Could you give a rundown of what exactly? I know the baffle step would be lower with the full stack than the halfer, but I'm guessing there's other stuff too and can't put my finger on it.
After all, if only sensitivity mattered, a low-powered amp-head user (an application with no power handling problems, that is) would be able to use either a 4-ohm 2x10 with two 8-ohm drivers in parallel OR an 8-ohm 4x10 with the same drivers in series-parallel indifferently, with the same resulting volume, and in that case why bother with the bigger cab? (Dispersion disadvantages of a square 410 aside.)
Thanks in advance.
You have the right idea. Most people do not properly understand the relationship between amp power and acoustic power and perceived loudness.
Halving or doubling your amp power (3 dB) is barely detectable to the ear. 3 dB is considered the minimum difference that you can detect (in general). It takes TEN TIMES the amp power to produce a sound that you perceive as twice as loud.
On the other hand, doubling your cone area DOUBLES your perceived volume - schlepping 2 cabs gives you the same results as an amp ten times louder.(cabs being the same sensitivity).
So - here are the facts - it is up to you to decide how to proceed that is best for you.
Halving or doubling your amp power (3 dB) is barely detectable to the ear. 3 dB is considered the minimum difference that you can detect (in general). It takes TEN TIMES the amp power to produce a sound that you perceive as twice as loud.
On the other hand, doubling your cone area DOUBLES your perceived volume - schlepping 2 cabs gives you the same results as an amp ten times louder.(cabs being the same sensitivity).
So - here are the facts - it is up to you to decide how to proceed that is best for you.
I did, in the second part of the post.
Doubling cabs, or drivers, doesn't double perceived volume, which as you said is 10 dB. Doubling cabs or drivers doubles the total cone displacement, which gives a maximum additional output of 6dB.
OK, so just power handling (and baffle step) then.
(^ Should anyone incorrectly infer that that quote is also from from my post...well, it isn't.)
Actually, doubling cabs or cones only adds a theoretical 3dB.
Getting +6dB is assuming your head doubles the output when the load impedance is halved.
Not all do, as in the case of tube heads.
Some ss heads only add 2dB going from 8 ohms to 4, such as the Demeter VTBP-M-800D goes from 500 watts to 800 watts when the output impedance is halved. And others, like the original Orange TB1000 only go from 900 watts to 1000 watts when the output impedance is halved.
A little different situation, yours: Nineteen-pound lighter cabs and no need to run in series and halve the power. OP has 46lb. cabs. and can’t run his amp at 2 ohms. There are a lot of cab and amp combinations that would make the math work for me, but not the OP's.
My gut based on many years of trial and error, of which I've known what I was doing zero of them, is that in a real-life situation, less power/more speakers almost always sounds better than more power/fewer speakers. There are situations where you can get a bunch of volume by cranking a lot of power through a single speaker and aiming it right at your earhole, but most of them don't involve bass and aren't very much fun.
350 Watts + 4x12 should be plenty loud.
350 Watts + 4x12 should be plenty loud.
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Y'all must be loud. I play a 4 ohm 2x12 cab with a 250w amp. I'm pretty loud for my gigs (9pc top40 horn band). I've also done gigs with a single 8ohm 12" cab. Was loud enough (getting 150w) but could have used a little more presence.
I would invest a few bucks to built myself a good looking speaker stand that raises your existing cab 2 feet of the ground and thus closer to your ears. Take it from someone who used to own two 212 cabinets and most of the times only brought one or ended up unplugging the bottom cab. I like loud, but I feel that with four 12s you sacrifice punch for boom in most rooms. Unless you play really large venues at high stage volumes all the time, I think it's overkill.
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I said maximum output. That implies being driven with the maximum displacement limited power.
While knowing the maths, -3db on one end and +3db on the other = 0db,
My personal experience is that in this one particular band, 500 watts into 212 is not cutting it.
It nearly does, but with the amp maxed the whole thing is loud enough, but to thin.
I forgot my amp once and used my old peavey mark IV that is gathering dust in that room. Rated 240 watts into 4 ohms. Amp maxed, it was okay. It felt like more air was moved and more bass on tap than 500 watts into 212 could do.
I can't really recall what kind of poweramp I was using with the 212 before, though. Could have been one of those that do less than advertised.
My personal experience is that in this one particular band, 500 watts into 212 is not cutting it.
It nearly does, but with the amp maxed the whole thing is loud enough, but to thin.
I forgot my amp once and used my old peavey mark IV that is gathering dust in that room. Rated 240 watts into 4 ohms. Amp maxed, it was okay. It felt like more air was moved and more bass on tap than 500 watts into 212 could do.
I can't really recall what kind of poweramp I was using with the 212 before, though. Could have been one of those that do less than advertised.
In any case, given the same output volume, having double the speakers is going to feel a lot better and I dare anyone to disagree.
I had a similar situation once.
I didn't notice it getting louder, however it was nicer onstage but I can't put my finger on it although I suspect it's a combination of having a second cab closer to my ears and maybe some extra low end due to having 4 rather than 2 speakers? I can't say, which tells you that it's probably not worth it, carrying all that extra bulk and weight.
My next step was to get a second amplifier and use it merely as a power amp, slaved to the first, and each amp powering one cab. That adds yet another amplifier to bring to the gig 'though.
Which is why I ended up finding a 2-ohm capable amplifier whose sound I liked.
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