Is Fender a scam?

[BassPlayer900]

Talkbass has become the chief anti-fender and anti-american made and anti-expensive bass forum around!

This is pretty true.

Fender is not a scam. I own a MIM Jazz bass and it's great. It smoked a Squire Jaguar w/ P/J pickups that I played in a store when it came to tone (not saying Squire is a bad brand, it's just that their basses don't sound that good to me, but YMMV, and perhaps the bass needed batteries?)

 

[smcd]

It is interesting that you compare the three Leo Fender brands, since one might theorize that these companies can't very well set their price point very much lower than the others without losing some of their status. If I know TB, someone might very well chime in with a Peavey comparison soon. I still think that Fender - along with G&L and EBMM for that matter - have the reputation and history to slightly up their prices at little risk of losing customers, but again, I have nothing to back that up except my personal version of common sense.

Cheers, Martin

Good point on the pricing in relation to brand consciousness. Peavey did try to break that barrier by offering high quality at a lower price point. What ended up happening is that Peavey gained an unfair and inaccurate reputation as a 2nd-rate manufacturer among many in the market. At this point, Peavey has ceased manufacturing basses in the US.

I think most of the brand premium has disappeared with Fender, though. They have marketed several lower priced US bass models, none of which set the market on fire.

 

[lucas vigor]

I think the MIA should come down to the 800 dollar level. For 1400 dollars there are a lot of other basses I would be looking at. Basses that included a pre-amp and custom options...basses such as Carvin.

 

[landau roof]

ALL fender jazzes and Ps that I've seen have the exact same bridge, folded steel plate with saddles. Reguardless of squier or not. Every fender I've seen has the exact same tuners except for a stamp of the name on the plate. Every fender has the same neck plate, flat alloy with a fender F. Every fender has the pop on knobs (that I've seen). They all use the same woods for their necks and fretboards. Hard rock maple and Indian rosewood. The bodies, they have different types of wood for each bass but they have the same ash for squier and fender. Same basswood. Etc. the only real differences are. A. Graphite rods in full on fenders (still not expensive enough to jack the price up too 1500) B. nicer finish (usually more glassy on fenders than on squiers) C. The electronics are slightly upgraded but once again, not enough to make a 300 dollar bass 1500 bucks.

I must add, the woods used are the exact same and I can't imagine a company ordering the same wood from two different suppliers. While yes the woods vary in densities, it is most likely from the same location.

You may have very well concluded this post with, "And FWIW, I have never seen any two Fenders of different lines in the same room at the same time, so YMMV."

 

[smcd]

I think the MIA should come down to the 800 dollar level. For 1400 dollars there are a lot of other basses I would be looking at. Basses that included a pre-amp and custom options...basses such as Carvin.

Invalid Link Removed Throw in one of GC's omnipresent $100-off coupons and voila! Better yet - take the end price and go to Music123, and they'll likely beat it.


And some people say wishes don't come true.

 

[Faderoktopus]

Now now, don't you mean that unless I agree with everyone that Squire rocks and that Fender sux, this thread will go down the drain?

I know. We cannot allow any opinions that go against the established flow here.

No, I mean unless you lay off the obnoxious attitude, wasn't that apparent in my post?

Anyhow, I am quietly suspecting you didn't read the thread, or you wouldn't have asked me what you did.

1/2 pages of making an entry, and you have already made it quite clear that you don't consider the opinions voiced here to be trustworthy or even relevant. So, you have no interest in a respectful discussion, and I have no interest in talking to you anymore. Fine.

I will, however, stand by my right to continue this discussion with the other TB'ers, and can do nothing more than ask you nicely to not try and deliberately ruin it for us. Please?

Martin

 

[lucas vigor]

Invalid Link Removed Throw in one of GC's omnipresent $100-off coupons and voila! Better yet - take the end price and go to Music123, and they'll likely beat it.


And some people say wishes don't come true.

Good deal! I don't know how anyone can really complain about a quality, american made bass for under 900 bucks. See, I would rather spend the extra money and support AMERICAN made products. Call me patriotic but i have this funny thing about saving american jobs.....plus I know that Fender picks better wood for the MIAs..better parts...it makes no sense what Curbowkid said...nope....not at all. I don't think he really researched it at all...just spewing statements as though they are facts....we see a lot of that around here.

 

[lucas vigor]

No, I mean unless you lay off the obnoxious attitude, wasn't that apparent in my post?

Anyhow, I am quietly suspecting you didn't read the thread, or you wouldn't have asked me what you did.

1/2 pages of making an entry, and you have already made it quite clear that you don't consider the opinions voiced here to be trustworthy or even relevant. So, you have no interest in a respectful discussion, and I have no interest in talking to you anymore. Fine.

I will, however, stand by my right to continue this discussion with the other TB'ers, and can do nothing more than ask you nicely to not try and deliberately ruin it for us. Please?

Martin

What? Ruin the MIA Fender bashing? Ok, go ahead.....self appointed moderator. Where were you when they were calling me "insane" and "Bitter, jaded man" or "Poor crafstman" and otherwise making all kinds of personal attacks against me last time this type of thread showed up, and I happened to disagree with all of your assertions that quality does not matter any more?

Oh that's right, you agree with them so it's ok.

 

[Faderoktopus]

What? Ruin the MIA Fender bashing? Ok, go ahead.....self appointed moderator. Where were you when they were calling me "insane" and "Bitter, jaded man" or "Poor crafstman" and otherwise making all kinds of personal attacks against me last time this type of thread showed up?

Oh that's right, you agree with them so it's ok.

And that has what to do with this thread? And if you read the thread, what makes you say I agree with 'them', whoever they are?

I remember the thread you are referring to, and I can't say I applauded your way of presenting your opinions there, either, but that is irrelevant here. I guess my plead won't come true, so I'm gonna go do something else now. Have a good day.

Martin

 

[Mykk]

I have a late 90's MIA Fender jazz and a new Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Five.

I love them both, the VMJ-V can't even hold a candle compared to my MIA Jazz. Tone, feel, playability... everything.

It's nice to have both available. The MIA Jazz is still my #1 go-to

 

[sammyp]

i've owned alot of guitars and basses ....i can tell ya ...the chinese know how to spin out a top quality product for low price! I have a made in china Epi Les Paul that is killer ...i did replace the pups to get it to the next level though.

My CV Squier Tele is a fantastic axe ....pups replaced as well. but my amex tele is easier to play do to the larger frets.

As for basses the CVs are great as well ....i haven't found anything in the store where i teach at that would make me wanna trade in my Amex Jazz though .....

i have never played an Indonesian squier product that has made me gas .....and my hands fall on alot of them being a guitar and bass teacher ....the kids all play indonesian squier!

to the op ....if you think fender is bad ....gibson is far worse ..comparing Epi to Gibson brand ....cause your price gap is about $600 to upwards of $2000- 3000

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

...It's the law of diminishing returns...

That's it. A $1200 bass is not going to be four times better than a $300 bass. But to get those extra refinements and little details, it will cost more.

I don't think the American model Fender prices are out of line with other similar stuff out there on the market (not including the Custom Shop stuff). So, no, I do not think Fender is a scam.

I have yet to play a Squire that felt as good as my American Fenders. I have tried some nice Mexican ones though.

In the end it's all preference.

 

[miltslackford]

I don't see why people are sticking up for Fender and saying people should 'buy american'. Fender themselves have started budget brands like Squier so they too can profit from the cheaper cost of labour overseas so why the issue of bass players doing the same?

Effectively what they've done is diversified and catered for two markets - one who can afford to buy american and sees some kind of point in it or extra quality, and another for people who either can't afford to buy American or would prefer the sound of a bass made elsewhere. The question of whether an instrument which costs more is worth more is pertinent.

The Fender brand was started off as a factory-made guitar. It's not a complex design, it's the equivalent of the 'Model T' Ford in that it has a bolt-on neck and simple contouring, and simple electronics. It's not rocket science to make these things, but the narrative Fender (and Fender fans) would have people believe is that there is something mystical that goes into making a genuine Fender, and you pay for it.

In my opinion, as long as you have decent wood and decent pickups, you can change any guitar substantially by changing the set up.

But still, I'd never buy a Fender when you can just as easily and more cheaply buy a Tokai, as I've found Tokais to be consistently amazing on a level which Fender doesn't come anywhere near.

Another point: I think a lot of the reason why people have a go at Fender is that they do turn out a lot of crappy stuff for a high price. Gibson generally don't do that. If you play a real Gibson 335 you know you've got something amazing in your hands. If you try a super-duper Fender, it's still basically one piece of wood bolted to another piece of wood, maybe this time with a good set up. I love the Fender design but it's not complicated and it's not supposed to be.

 

[pacojas]

interesting event just unfolded,..

my friend is a beginner that recently bought a new Squier. after 2 months he bought a Fender and is much happier! even this novice could tell the difference in the construction!

@Munji,...

of all people! lmao

 

[SRFSterling5]

High volume manufacturers like Fender need to meet certain goals at
certain price points. Manufacturing overseas in countries with lower
payroll costs contributes significantly to producing a product at a low
price point. Although many people will not come out and say it, union
labor is becoming increasingly expensive for US manufacturing in general,
which is the reason why to do it overseas. Plus, for those of us that
cannot afford a high end instrument, overseas manufacturing provides us
consumers goods at reasonable price.

IMO, Fender is not a scam. This is probably an improper term to use. From
what I can see, the quality control is what needs to step up. But when you
do this, is means more labor and hence, higher cost. I have tried many Fenders
in the past, both imports and domestics. Very hit and miss in quality control, at
least for the ones I have tries at the stores here. This is the reason for smaller
manufacturers like Lakland, Sadowsky, Mike Lull, and others that base their entire
lines on a better Fender style bass. Fender's great basic design with a variety of
enhancements.

 

[R Baer]

To me, one of the biggest problems with the Fender or Squire basses has always been the inconsistency you find between all their basses. Go to Guitar Center and play 10 different Fenders and you usually find a couple that sound horrible, a few that sound OK, a couple that sound really good and maybe one or two that sounds and plays amazing. Now, take a trip to a boutique shop like Sadowsky, or Nordstrand and start pulling basses off the wall and it's a totally different story. I think a lot of it has to do with wood selection. A company like Fender buys truck loads of blanks and turns them into basses. A shop like Sadowsky does a lot more hand picking of the woods that go into their instruments, so you have a lot more consistency between the instruments.

 

[curbowkid]

You sure got that all wrong.

Show me 1 USA made product that's cheaper than the over seas version

 

[Session1969]

Let's face it, Korean, Indonesian and Chinese manufacturers are the Walmart of the music instrument world. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you pay someone $3/day to work vs. $150/day that you can sell a similar product cheaper. It's called the "easy road" and while I'm guilty of it because of my finances, I'm not proud of it at all. It's like when I go into Walmart to buy a belt for $10. I get home , put it on and think "what a deal !" Then ,a month later, the pleather comes out from the buckle and it's useless. With Squiers, the necks move with the wind ( ok, maybe not with the wind,but you know what I mean), the saddles on the bridge move when you replace strings or even simply play for an extended period of time, the bodies are made of scraps with a veneer over the top in some cases , the woods aren't seasoned, etc. So, who's getting scammed ?

 

[landau roof]

Although many people will not come out and say it, union
labor is becoming increasingly expensive for US manufacturing in general,
which is the reason why to do it overseas.

A poor place to inject your opinion on unions, IMO.

I will say that I don't particularly care for the way the US Standards are optioned out. I'm not into the string-thru, high-mass bridge, the S1 circuit or whatever, etc. If the OP feels the same way, I can partially see his dilemma. Maybe he should strip his basses finishes and see what's underneath.

 

[curbowkid]

So, Fender expert: Where does the wood come from? What country? Is it shipped from where to where?

I'm not a fender expert. I'm speaking from first hand experience. I don't know what country it comes from. But maple is maple. Rosewood is rosewood. Yes each cut is different, but you will find that in most any manufacturer. Even cut from the same tree, densities vary. The maple probably comes form growers here in the US or in Canada. I don't know about the others.