Is $$$ for gigs something that just doesn't happen for certain genres/in certain areas?

[BurningSkies]

no people, no draw, no return = no money

its a simple case of supply and demand

Keep the faith and keep metal alive \m/

So underground that no one has heard the band?

 

[Caleb Mills]

There's definitely a punk scene in Cincy, though it tends to lean more towards hardcore than alternative. But there's lots of smaller bars and houses that host shows all the time. We might not always get the huge national/regional touring acts, but Cincinnati has a hell of a D.I.Y. scene. The money might not be great, but there's definitely places to play without having to resort to advance ticket sales.

As far as contributing to the larger topic at hand, I agree with a lot of the previous sentiments. You either deal with what's available or you work to create your own scene. Find places that'll either rent out or do shows at times when you don't have to compete.

Barring doing that, the only other option is to try and move to a place where there is already a scene. I think somebody already mentioned Sweden?

I believe it. I'm just saying in my experience Cincy (and the surrounding area from Lexington to Indianapolis and sometimes even down in to Tennessee) didn't have much of a scene for bands like mine. First off, we weren't that good, and secondly, we never met a single band that played our style.

 

[mikeyjm2]

How are you trying to 'advance' past this? What strategy are you working with to advance both your fanbase as well as your draw?

That goes right to the issue really. Out of the 5 of us in the band I'm the only one who really wants to push past this level. Everyone else is satisfied with doing a gig here and there for family and friends. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you're satisfied with, but I was wanting to do more in the way of a promo kit, go around to different venues pushing for gigs, promotion on social media etc. I can't be the only one wanting that though. I do enjoy the band however and don't plan to quit. I just had to modify my own expectations of it.

So I hooked up with another band about a month ago who is more into doing covers and actively seeking gigs. They already have some promotional material like banners, stickers, cards, etc. and do push on social media. We're trying to finalize our set list (very close now) and tighten up on it once fully established and then we'll start going after gigs. To be clear, in both bands everyone works a day job so music is not anyone's exclusive focus.

 

[Caleb Mills]

That goes right to the issue really. Out of the 5 of us in the band I'm the only one who really wants to push past this level. Everyone else is satisfied with doing a gig here and there for family and friends. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you're satisfied with, but I was wanting to do more in the way of a promo kit, go around to different venues pushing for gigs, promotion on social media etc. I can't be the only one wanting that though. I do enjoy the band however and don't plan to quit. I just had to modify my own expectations of it.

So I hooked up with another band about a month ago who is more into doing covers and actively seeking gigs. They already have some promotional material like banners, stickers, cards, etc. and do push on social media. We're trying to finalize our set list (very close now) and tighten up on it once fully established and then we'll start going after gigs. To be clear, in both bands everyone works a day job so music is not anyone's exclusive focus.

I feel your pain, brah. Family and friends shows are embarrassing and a waste of time if that's all you ever get to do.

 

[SiSoldier]

I am STILL waiting to hear what a band gets paid for doing a 30 minute set of original material.

My original band The Returners from Los Angeles gets paid EVERY show to play a 30 minute set. We are usually the band who plays right before the headliner in a 3-4 band bill. The pay ranges from $200-300 per show which goes back to pay for fuel, merch and studio time.

 

[Sixgunn]

Venues are there to make money, not to support your hobby. That means one of two things:

1. You play music their regulars like, and/or
2 you draw enough people where it makes sense for them to book you.

Why don't people understand this???

Because we're all musical geniuses and the rest of the world needs to come to grips with this!!

 

[Jack Butler]

Venues are there to make money, not to support your hobby. That means one of two things:

1. You play music their regulars like, and/or
2 you draw enough people where it makes sense for them to book you.

Why don't people understand this???

+1000. A few lucky ones make a living doing something like playing metal originals(or insert your favorite hobby here). But generally it's pretty tough to make a good living at something that's fun. There's a reason there are more $100k job openings for accountants than metal guitar players.

 

[Robroy]

There was a guy on HC that made the lucid comment about this whole thing: He said he was in a cover band and an originals band, but he and his young wife were starting a family so one of the bands had to go. It meant staying in the one that actually paid money.

And we all know which one that was.

Being in an originals band is like buying a lotto ticket and rather binary: You almost certainly will get back nothing, but there is a VERY slight chance you may hit it big.

 

[BurningSkies]

That goes right to the issue really. Out of the 5 of us in the band I'm the only one who really wants to push past this level. Everyone else is satisfied with doing a gig here and there for family and friends. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you're satisfied with, but I was wanting to do more in the way of a promo kit, go around to different venues pushing for gigs, promotion on social media etc. I can't be the only one wanting that though. I do enjoy the band however and don't plan to quit. I just had to modify my own expectations of it.

So I hooked up with another band about a month ago who is more into doing covers and actively seeking gigs. They already have some promotional material like banners, stickers, cards, etc. and do push on social media. We're trying to finalize our set list (very close now) and tighten up on it once fully established and then we'll start going after gigs. To be clear, in both bands everyone works a day job so music is not anyone's exclusive focus.

That's cool, although it plays to the 'originals don't pay' v. 'cover bands play/pay'. I believe if you've got a band producing original material that is also motivated, you can have a viable situation. Writing and performing original music doesn't have to be a 'vanity project' in the sense that say, self published books are.

If you're just going to play in front of family and friends, I guess skip the booking and play in your living room.

 

[BurningSkies]

There was a guy on HC that made the lucid comment about this whole thing: He said he was in a cover band and an originals band, but he and his young wife were starting a family so one of the bands had to go. It meant staying in the one that actually paid money.

And we all know which one that was.

Being in an originals band is like buying a lotto ticket and rather binary: You almost certainly will get back nothing, but there is a VERY slight chance you may hit it big.

It depends if you're playing for the money or playing because you enjoy the artistic endeavor and being up in front of a bunch of people on a stage. Its nice to have both of those things, but if I couldn't play the music I liked but was offered a gig that paid well, I'd probably skip. I get no fulfillment in just getting paid.

I like the middle ground...playing music I have a creative stake in as well as getting some money for the efforts.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

If you haven't already, get yourself on YouTube. Start creating buzz and make a name for yourself in the local scene. Get people talking and excited about you! Promote yourself! Metal isn't dead. Bars and clubs just need to be able to cover their costs and make it worth THEIR while before they can begin to pay anyone. Bringing in a band who is unknown means little to no revenue to the venue. If you can pull them in, they'll book you.

The age old saying "You need to spend money to make money" certainly applies to bands, and it'll mostly be in promotion.

Hey Alaska! Got perfect blue skies here in Sitka. Almost 65 degrees! LOL.
I agree with Raven.
Here's another idea. Why not promote "Metal Nights" on say, Thursdays in and around your areas. Like Raventepes said, you'll have to get creative and start thinking like a promoter. But be very visible and persistent. Do a lot of self promotion. Get to know club owners. Put out some tickler mini posters of your band..
Good luck!

 

[Ben Noblit]

Being in an originals band is like buying a lotto ticket and rather binary: You almost certainly will get back nothing, but there is a VERY slight chance you may hit it big.

I disagree. I know plenty of original bands that run the festival and club circuit, and do well enough to be either scraping by (myself) or have a very nice additional income (my guitarist). Admittedly, most of the ones I know are either roots, country, or Latin types, but still.

If your original music is GOOD, danceable, pleasant to listen to, with good clean melodies, and your performance is entertaining, being a middle-class original band is very doable.

 

[Session1969]

What I meant is that when I did originals, I did everything myself. Rented the hall, sold the tickets, collected the money, paid the bills, kept the balance.

Where does "not getting a fair shake from the clubs " come into play ?

 

[Robroy]

It depends if you're playing for the money or playing because you enjoy the artistic endeavor and being up in front of a bunch of people on a stage. Its nice to have both of those things, but if I couldn't play the music I liked but was offered a gig that paid well, I'd probably skip. I get no fulfillment in just getting paid.

I like the middle ground...playing music I have a creative stake in as well as getting some money for the efforts.

Yeah, I should have said "financially" like buying lotto tickets.

My attitude toward playing in a cover band has been the same since I started playing in 1998: Being in a cover band today is like being on a softball team in the late 20th century, except it pays enough to buy your balls, bats and gas.

Originals band is a whole 'nother thing. For starters, being a binary thinker, I see playing an instrument or singing as a completely different skill than writing music. Those that like to write music may be terrible musicians, and vice versa. But there are LOTS of very good cover musicians in symphonic orchestras that have no desire to write.

I think about dabbling in writing music sometimes, but I also think about writing a book. It has little to do with being a performing musician. Ask the folks who wrote for Sinatra or Elvis.

 

[Robroy]

I disagree. I know plenty of original bands that run the festival and club circuit, and do well enough to be either scraping by (myself) or have a very nice additional income (my guitarist). Admittedly, most of the ones I know are either roots, country, or Latin types, but still.

I'm sure that happens, but I see it as the exception rather than the rule. To expand my lotto analogy, there are low dollar winners ($5, 10, 100, etc.) but the point is that as even remotely as a source of income enough to even pay for gas, originals bands, for five nines worth of those that do it, is worse than a zero sum game, financially.

 

[BurningSkies]

Yeah, I should have said "financially" like buying lotto tickets.

My attitude toward playing in a cover band has been the same since I started playing in 1998: Being in a cover band today is like being on a softball team in the late 20th century, except it pays enough to buy your balls, bats and gas.

Originals band is a whole 'nother thing. For starters, being a binary thinker, I see playing an instrument or singing as a completely different skill than writing music. Those that like to write music may be terrible musicians, and vice versa. But there are LOTS of very good cover musicians in symphonic orchestras that have no desire to write.

I think about dabbling in writing music sometimes, but I also think about writing a book. It has little to do with being a performing musician. Ask the folks who wrote for Sinatra or Elvis.

Some writers have gone on to have some pretty awesome performing careers as well.

The creative and performing venture is something that I enjoy both on the 'front' and 'back' sides. The only thing I don't love is writing lyrics. I hate performing to empty rooms...because I could do that at home. There's something to bringing joy to the listener and the interaction with the audience. There's also something to the creative process and how it works. I can play passably well, but to me playing other people's parts is like putting words into my mouth.

 

[Robroy]

Some writers have gone on to have some pretty awesome performing careers as well.

Yep. E.g. Carol King and a lot of pop stars.

There's also something to the creative process and how it works. I can play passably well, but to me playing other people's parts is like putting words into my mouth.

Like an actor?

Yes, I confess that I do sometimes wish I could add to the creative input to the songs by actually writing them. But I LOVE being on stage. I'm almost pure Sanguine personality type. And the WAY I play songs and interact with the audience is part of what I uniquely bring to the table. And I love it almost as much as playing the bass.

 

[Jack Butler]

...
My attitude toward playing in a cover band has been the same since I started playing in 1998: Being in a cover band today is like being on a softball team in the late 20th century, except it pays enough to buy your balls, bats and gas...

The softball analogy is pretty darn accurate lol. I love playing softball. Significant other and kid like to come watch. Nobody else cares.

 

[Session1969]

So , Zebra , what are the ages of the members and what are your goals as a group.

 

[TuneIn]

So underground that no one has heard the band?

what band?