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Is $$$ for gigs something that just doesn't happen for certain genres/in certain areas?

#143
BurningSkies said:
That's cool, although it plays to the 'originals don't pay' v. 'cover bands play/pay'. I believe if you've got a band producing original material that is also motivated, you can have a viable situation. Writing and performing original music doesn't have to be a 'vanity project' in the sense that say, self published books are.

If you're just going to play in front of family and friends, I guess skip the booking and play in your living room.
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All good points you make. The more I think about it the less I suppose it has to do with the fact that it's original material and more to do with the lack of anyone pushing for paying gigs.

About that playing in the living room thing... yup... not too far off of what we do (and have done). We did play a local bistro a couple of times, but the owners are friends of the guitarist. We all ended up buying our dinner and drinks there and paying for parking on top of that. Gigging for free is one thing, and even buying food and drinks, but the paying for parking thing tweaked both me and the drummer a bit. He and I agreed that wouldn't happen again.
 
#144
St. Louis Scot said:
If you're playing all originals, I assume it's about the art, not the cash. Bars want patrons to dance and drink. While I have no experience with all original metal gigs, I can't imagine there's too much cash paid for it. Again, though if you're in it for the art/fun, then this whole conversation is mute.
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I agree
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#145
Robroy said:
Originals band is a whole 'nother thing. For starters, being a binary thinker, I see playing an instrument or singing as a completely different skill than writing music. Those that like to write music may be terrible musicians, and vice versa. But there are LOTS of very good cover musicians in symphonic orchestras that have no desire to write.
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That made me think of Michael Jackson. I saw a clip where he was demonstrating how he writes a song. He couldn't play an instrument, but he could sing/beat-box the melody and rhythm. He did ok as a song writer, but he was less than a mediocre bassist.
 
#147
Well, there's quite a few replies for to look at since I went to bed :D

I keep hearing that "you need three 45 minute blocks to say you have a set", but as others have noted, this simply doesn't exist in metal. Typical gigs are 25-30 minute sets. Occasionally we get 45 minute sets. You only seem to go beyond that if you're a large and known, touring band. So I seem to get the sense that there's no overlap with paid gigs here.

We have moved some crowds before though. We've moved ~$1000 in tickets for a single show. Of course this is the rotten pre-sale BS so we got to keep ~$60 of that. However the kind of gigs where we can pull this size of crowd (good venues, opening for larger bands, etc.) tend to be pre-sale. We need to figure out how to get around this.

BlueShox said:
I played in a "Metalcore" band for a few years just out of high school. We played a lot of churches, festival type gigs, and small bars. Especially for the first year or so, until we had an album and EP released, we were pretty much playing with minimal income from shows and relying heavily on merch to fund things. Even after having a few releases, $200-$300 a night was good money to us for a 45-60 minute set. That doesn't go a long way, obviously, especially as you gather other expenses to play more shows and tour (merch guys, roadies, van insurance, etc.)

Cut my teeth on that for a few years, made my way back home. Got a degree, got married, formed an indie rock band that plays about 60% originals, 40% covers. Walk out of a 4 hour gig with $140 in my pocket, a belly full of food, and typically a little tipsy. But I know I'm never going to hit it big like this, and sometimes the band feels a little bit like a novelty act or something. When I was gigging with the metal band, I felt like a rock god when I was playing.

Short answer is, I doubt you'll make much money doing what you're doing now. But, I doubt you'll find much fulfillment doing something else.
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This is the kind of thing I'm interested in hearing about though. Expecting to walk away with $2-300 a night, or even a fraction of that, is still a lot better than we're doing now. Is that all merch or was there any compensation involved? We've made $200 in merch from a festival show once. Most of the time we can expect peanuts.

Session1969 said:
Showcasing original music is awesome and I congratulate you. To make money, you have to have people that will come to see you. It takes some time but the harder you work, the faster it'll happen. Granted , it's not a lot of money , but if you consider that you're only playing a set, $100-$300 isn't bad because it's your music and if you multiply that by three or four , it's on par with how much lower to medium level cover bands get. That is level 1 that you need to get to.

First, you should do your best to be as competitive as you can be so practice your asses off. You guys have to kill it when your onstage. You have to promote and be part of your music scene which means going to other metal shows, meeting people and introducing yourselves to anyone and everyone. This is essential for a local music scene. We'd flyer cars at gigs, hand out flyers , make friends with other bands that have an actual draw, get on local radio shows, benefits, you name it. Be good first, though. Merchandise is also important because it's great advertising. Having people help with setting up equipment and selling merch with something as simple as a folding table with a banner behind them also helps because it shows others that there are people who believe in you. This is show business and the only reality potential fans have is what their perception is. What they see, they tend to believe. Not sure your age but the younger you are , the easier it is to find people willing to do those things (a lot of times, for free because they believe in you). You know who doesn't like pre sale tickets ? Bands that can't draw because they don't have enough fans willing to pay five or ten bucks to see them. Build a fan base by continuing to showcase with other bands (include all age and underage shows because of the strong teenage metal fan base) and network until you can bring in 30 people that you know will buy a ticket before doing the pay to play thing. You just have to do it at the right time is all. Instead of balking at the roadmap, embrace it. Pay to play has been around since the eighties and it's a way for the club to know that the place won't be empty. Can you blame them ? Social media and videos are great , of course, put pictures of fans from your last show up on your Facebook page and website and keep doing so. Get Instagram, Twitter and keep up with whatever the next social media tool may be and keep moving forward. Let everyone know "hey everyone, we're putting the finishing touches on our next song called xxxxx and we'll have ready for you at our show on xxxx ". Use your imagination , humor to keep people interested with social media. I'm in my 40's now and I'll tell you, the older your potential fanbase gets, the harder it is so, go for it ! The multi band showcase is a great way to win over fans that came to see someone else as well as showing your presence in the scene. If you can be the best band that night, you win over people. Keep doing it and in a year or two, you should at least make a dent if you're any good. Gotta go, but I hope this helps.
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All good points. We're on top of social media, stage presence, merch, and all that stuff. We have our own light boxes, fog machines, etc. We've also organized our own multi-band shows where we invite some buddy bands and play. We haven't made money out of this though. Would you say we show approach a venue with this setup and ask for some kind of $$ kickback?

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Session1969 said:
So , Zebra , what are the ages of the members and what are your goals as a group.
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Right now my main concern is to make sure the band isn't in the red. We'd like to build a local following and maybe do a local mini tour, but the next milestone is recording an EP and we need to organize the finances for that.
 
#148
With the gigs you set up with other bands, what arrangements are made with the venue manager in terms of pay ? Have they mentioned any incentive ? How many people show ? If you need to work on attendance, do so. Be hard on yourselves and make it worth it to the venues. You cant expect any money if only a few people show up. Can you get a percentage of the bar in lou of no cover ? Is it legal to charge a cover at the venue ? Between the three bands, could you each get ten people to pay a cover of $5 ? Do you have an email list besides using social media ? Every show , get emails and build your following. Every show that you put on that you aren't getting emails is a big fail. You have to capture as many people as you can as fast as you can because it's a race. Believe that.
 
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#149
There is something quite common with originals bands that is unheard of with cover bands: "Pay to play".

I subbed for an originals band back around 2003. I was shocked when they gave us a bunch of tickets to sell. I had never heard of such a thing.
 
#152
$$$ for gigs depends on your local market. In my case there is little if any market for metal locally, even more modern rock is somewhat of a crap shoot. If you want to make any sort of money playing out you have to either play classic rock or country. That's precisely why both of my bands are "country" primarily, even though I personally hate country. You can play what you enjoy, and you can make money playing... but rarely do the two align.
 
#153
I haven't read every single post in the thread, so I apologize if this has already been said.

Around here (Upstate NY), many bars don't charge an entrance fee, so the band doesn't get paid, but they are welcome to have donation/tips buckets out for the audience to contribute. I don't know if metal fans would be the same as what I've seen (rock, blues, jazz), but the audience members usually are happy to contribute. The band guys don't make a living off these gigs, but they build fan base, name recognition, and, the bars help promote the events. Some bars/clubs even pay for the local media ads, which saves the bands $$.

Also, bars usually (but not always) provide band members a few freebies in the way of drinks and food.
 
#154
strictlybass_ic said:
$$$ for gigs depends on your local market. In my case there is little if any market for metal locally, even more modern rock is somewhat of a crap shoot. If you want to make any sort of money playing out you have to either play classic rock or country. That's precisely why both of my bands are "country" primarily, even though I personally hate country. You can play what you enjoy, and you can make money playing... but rarely do the two align.
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Heck, I enjoy playing almost anything. I'm playing a small church revival all this week while their bass player recovers in the hospital. I hate to listen to this particular kind of music, but love to play it.

It's how I felt about big band music when I played bass trombone in college stage band.
 
#157
Robroy said:
Think of the band and its music as the free toy in the happy meal. It's not what the customer is buying, but it gets more people to buy the product.

:D
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Well, when they're charging 10 or 12 bucks at the door for our entertainment and we're getting part or all of that, they ARE paying for the product.

Also, I'll say a good relationship with a club or bar is completely symbiotic. It should be beneficial to both parties.
 
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#158
BurningSkies said:
Well, when they're charging 10 or 12 bucks at the door for our entertainment and we're getting part or all of that, they ARE paying for the product.

Also, I'll say a good relationship with a club or bar is completely symbiotic. It should be beneficial to both parties.
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Oh, if there is a cover, I expect AT LEAST half, if not all of it. Usually it's ALL.

But with a caveat: Where I now live we play dry counties. What is taken at the door is pretty much ALL that is taken except for a few $1.50 hot dog sales and soda.
 
#160
Robroy said:
Oh, if there is a cover, I expect AT LEAST half, if not all of it. Usually it's ALL.

But with a caveat: Where I now live we play dry counties. What is taken at the door is pretty much ALL that is taken except for a few $1.50 hot dog sales and soda.
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I'll split door.


If there's another band playing with us. ;)
 

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