Is getting an unlined fretless a good idea?

[Spas]

I like to think the fret lines more as "landmarks" than as positions you should put your finger on. I've had both lined and unlined fretless basses, and at least I noticed that I was looking at the lines or the side dots equally as much (as little as possible) when playing "normal" bass lines. It's the big position jumps where the difference is/was for me: with side dots I tend to always be a bit on the sharp side (due to the angle the neck is to myself). These transitions, for example to the high E on the D string from the lower positions, is much easier and more in tune with lines. This, of course, might be because I've only been playing the fretless for just close to two years, and "haven't just gotten it yet". But anyways, it is easier, at least for me.

And also, I really don't see the difference in looking at side dots or fret lines.

 

[lpdeluxe]

I like to think the fret lines more as "landmarks" than as positions you should put your finger on. I've had both lined and unlined fretless basses, and at least I noticed that I was looking at the lines or the side dots equally as much (as little as possible) when playing "normal" bass lines. It's the big position jumps where the difference is/was for me: with side dots I tend to always be a bit on the sharp side (due to the angle the neck is to myself). These transitions, for example to the high E on the D string from the lower positions, is much easier and more in tune with lines. This, of course, might be because I've only been playing the fretless for just close to two years, and "haven't just gotten it yet". But anyways, it is easier, at least for me.

And also, I really don't see the difference in looking at side dots or fret lines.

There's always the danger of "parallax error" with lines because you're looking at an angle to the line. I have a little trouble with my Godin, but I've just had it for about three months, and I expect things to improve.

I've played slide and steel guitar as well as Dobro for years, so the fretless allows me to do a lot of the tricks on bass that I've been doing on guitar.

 

[Jim Carr]

...I liked the unlined better since my mind/ears worked better thinking intervals instead of lines. My experience on upright has taught me that intonation is about learning correct fingering and knowing your intervals. This is a big task and frustrating if you don't approach playing fretless with discipline

+1

You won't be able to see lines on a dark stage, and dots, well, also hard to see in the dark.

You didn't say much about your musical background (or I missed it). If you have a reasonably trained ear—can match pitch well, identify intervals and contour, and have developed your musical memory, unlined fretless will be fine.

Learning upright first is helpful because if studied rigorously, it can afford you a systematic technique that is adaptable to fretless. However, good electric bass technique can work.

I might add that if you have any experience on violin, viola, or cello, that definitely helps, too.

BTW, a word about drawing lines. Just about every serious upright player I have ever known (many), used a pencil to make small temporary marks on their fingerboards—not on every pitch, but on some troublesome target, like the octave, or some other position in the higher registers.

 

[Ed Goode]

I play both lined and unlined with no real preference, but on my last build I requested unlined primarily because it complimented the bass cosmetically. Everyone always has differing opinions on the subject, but the bottom line is that you should use whatever makes you comfortable.

Lines and dots are just generic reference points and have minimal to no commonality between basses. Exactly on the line for one bass may be slightly flat on another or sharp on a 3rd bass; every bass is unique. And playing an unlined fingerboard doesn't make you better or cooler than playing a lined board .... playing with proper intonation makes you better and cooler, though

It is kinda sad hearing how many fretless players have truely horrendous intonation. I don't think you need to have perfect pitch to play fretless (I certainly don't) but at least try to get in the game with reasonable relative pitch, or put down the naked neck and walk away from the fretless ....

 

[Fretless1!]

Or rather, if you played an unlined fretless and then a fretted, does the fretted sound somewhat out of tune (at the lowest and the highest frets)?

This is what I hear when I go back to fretted and it drives me nuts!

I would go unlined. You can't really see the fretboard when you're playing anyway.

I have to have side dots, though. They'll help you get in the ballpark when you make great leaps in distance up the neck. From there on out, it's ear training.

 

[Fretless1!]

+1

BTW, a word about drawing lines. Just about every serious upright player I have ever known (many), used a pencil to make small temporary marks on their fingerboards—not on every pitch, but on some troublesome target, like the octave, or some other position in the higher registers.

I've done that especially in the studio.

 

[bassbenj]

If you're a beginner, you absolutely positively want a LINED fretless. It's much easier to learn to play. If you decide later for some inexplicable reason you want an unlined fretless, you can take a Sharpie marker and hide the lines.

I learned on a lined fretless and I absolutely do NOT agree with this. First, it is only a little bit easier to learn with a lined neck than one with only dots. And if it's a cheap/old fretless where the dots are not in the fretless positions it's very bad because the line ends are hard to see and the wrong dots throw you off. You want to learn with FRETLESS dot positions so you get used to finding your way with that.

The main advantage of learning on a lined neck is that the lines go clear across the neck perpendicular to it and you'll find a tendency to angle your position as you go to higher strings and throw intonation off. With lines you can practice keeping your position perpendicular to the neck. BUT it basically only helps when you play seated and can SEE the lines! Standing with a strap, all you see is the edge anyway, which is why the proper dots are important and why lines won't make any difference then.

So I'd urge doing what I say not what I DID, and get unlined as everyone else is urging. One prime feature of unlined is the super cool LOOK it gives the bass on stage! I'm not super big on appearances but I still like the blank plank look! And with lines I found that most people in the audience don't even notice it's fretless. So yes, I have some lined necks because the basses were used and came that way and I play them fine. But I'm still sorry I went with lined on my Carvin AC50 (my first fretless). It would look SO much cooler now unlined AND the stupid dots are wrong as well!

As for covering lines with a sharpie, what are you? A guitar player giving advice on TB? Yech!

 

[malthumb]

Even though I play an unlined fretless, I have to ask this question......Several have opined that the reason to go with side dots rather than lines on the board is that the lines can be off. Why would it be more likely that the lines are off than it would be that the dots are off? Either would be a function of setup.

And for those who would say that more lines = more opportunity for error, there's a different type of error for a beginner trying to play a note between dots (6th fret position on D string [Ab] for example). It takes a good ear, because lining that position up on a blank plank from two dots that are on the fingerboard edge is tricky for newbies. It would seem, logically, that the line would provide a better starting reference point, then adjust based on what you hear.

......And to answer the OP......in my opinion, getting an unlined is rarely a bad idea. On the other hand, I don't think that getting a lined fingerboard is as bad as others are stating in this thread. It will always come down to adjusting your position to what you hear.

 

[ChrisPbass]

You use a Sharpie to HIDE lines. I've never heard of anyone adding lines with a Sharpie. The thought of that is actually very funny.





Too many people in this thread have forgotten what it's like to learn how to play. There's no other reason so many would be recommending an unlined fingerboard.

Learning to play, in general, is 'hard' so why not ratchet it up and learn more while it's hard? it won't be impossible, it won't be relative it will just be what it is

 

[smcd]

Why would it be more likely that the lines are off than it would be that the dots are off? Either would be a function of setup.

Exactly. It almost seems as if many here are acting as if they're in a club, and want to make the entrance requirements harder. Learning to play shouldn't be a chore. Why make it harder than it has to be?

There is no question that it's easier to learn how to play a lined fretless. Take a look at the fretless electric basses on ebay under $325. The VAST majority of them have lined fingerboards. In fact, EVERY bass made by a major brand (Squier, Ibanez, Yamaha) in that group is a lined fretless. Why?? Because it's easier for a beginner to learn on a lined fingerboard.

 

[smcd]

As for covering lines with a sharpie, what are you? A guitar player giving advice on TB? Yech!

OH! Ya got me! Exposed!



If the lines on the fingerboard of your $150 electric bass cause you artistic angst, diminishing their appearance with a $2 marker is a lot cheaper than spending $800 on a new bass. But hey, that's just me.

It would look SO much cooler now unlined

And here^^ we have, I think, a good part of why people like unlined fretless basses.

 

[nostatic]

There is no question that it's easier to learn how to play a lined fretless. Take a look at the fretless electric basses on ebay under $325. The VAST majority of them have lined fingerboards. In fact, EVERY bass made by a major brand (Squier, Ibanez, Yamaha) in that group is a lined fretless. Why?? Because it's easier for a beginner to learn on a lined fingerboard.

No, the reason is that they take the exact same neck from the fretted assembly line and just not put frets in, instead adding lines. They don't need to change anything else. Unlined requires that they change the side dots.

I find lined necks confusing but ymmv. My first fretless was a bass I had defretted and had them use a dark wood to fill the fret slots (rw fingerboard). So it was lined but subtle. Next basses were unlined and I found them easier to deal with.

 

[BassGen]

OK, I surrender. You guys have me so curious about fretless I had to go try one. Unfortunatley my local music shop only had one and it was a pretty crappy Squier. (Not dissing all Squier's, but this one was not good) but I at least realized I could still find the notes. Now I have GAS and now I'll start shopping for a quality fretless.

 

[spade2you]

If your end goal is to play an unlined, get an unlined now.

Exactly. I'm not going to say that either is better, but lines aren't training wheels. I admire those who can play both, but I think most of us learn the one config and stick with it.

The only "flaw" I see with unlined is that an unlined fanned fretless bass would terrify me to play. Fortunately, I'm happy enough with my 32" scale fretless 7 to fidget with adding an additional higher and lower string.

 

[Korladis]

You have to really train your ear and not get too frustrated if you want to play an unlined fretless.

I play one, but then again, I learned to play upright before I got it, so to me it's just like an easier version of the bass viol.

The nice thing about unlined is that guitarists will be quite hesitant to ask to try your bass, or if they do try it, they'll just get frustrated and put it down. It's hilarious to see.

 

[Kwesi]

I say get a lined board if you know that you can resist staring at your board while playing. Personally, I need some kind of visual help beyond the 12th fret or so not as a perfect indicator but a guide that can tell me where I am in relation to the other fret markers. I think partial lines, like on the Godin posted earlier, give the best of both aesthetics and function but you don't find those often.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Exactly. I'm not going to say that either is better, but lines aren't training wheels. I admire those who can play both, but I think most of us learn the one config and stick with it.

The only "flaw" I see with unlined is that an unlined fanned fretless bass would terrify me to play. Fortunately, I'm happy enough with my 32" scale fretless 7 to fidget with adding an additional higher and lower string.

I'd love to hear someone play an unlined fanned fretless in tune. I've only seen a few of them ever made, and never heard soundclips from the owners. It would present a massive challenge to play in tune, and is pretty masochistic IMO.

 

[spade2you]

I'd love to hear someone play an unlined fanned fretless in tune. I've only seen a few of them ever made, and never heard soundclips from the owners. It would present a massive challenge to play in tune, and is pretty masochistic IMO.

No kiddin'. I consider myself a fan of the strange basses, but that would seem to be a little beyond my comfort zone, which is probably saying a lot!!!

 

[Matthew_84]

Since this thread is relatively dead, it's a good time for a good ol' hijacking...

I'm having a hard time deciding if I should go fretless or not. My main concern is this, it's been established that a fretted bass can't have every note perfectly in tune.

Now, I may very well be over-thinking this, but if someone had perfect intonation, pitch, what have you, if they were to play over a song that was recorded with a fretted bass, there would be a *slight* difference in pitch between the recorded note and the live fretless being played.

Wouldn't this cause it to sound a bit off? Wouldn't the fretless player have to adjust their intonation a little to match?

Reason why I'm asking, is that if I start playing fretless, I'd like to stick with it and may not go back to fretted (depending on how I like it). I'd like to play along to backing tracks of keyboards and things perfectly in tune to work on my intonation. But if once and a while, I want to rock out to some song recorded with a fretted bass, wouldn't that interfere with my intonation training, and even slightly confuse my ear?

Sorry, again, I may be over-thinking this, but it does seem to make sense to me and I'm just curious with what others think.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[BassGen]

Matt, are you possibly applying to the "I overthink every little detail" club?

I'm mostly kidding but really? You think most people will pick up a few hertz of difference in frequency? I can't possibly believe that even the most skilled bassist would ever hit every note EXACTLY the same every time. We're talking a difference of 0.001" would affect the note being perfect or not.

I'd be more inclined to say that you would hit more notes that are "ever so slightly off" than you would hit on. One thing a fretted bass is or should be is consistent to itself.

But then again even on a fretted bass if you bend the string by a fraction you change the tone.

Don't over think this Matt. If you want to go fretless, go fretless.

I'm looking for one now but I want the challenge and the diversification. It doesn't have to be either/or.