Is it harder to play a fretless?

[OutToPlayJazz]

They were relentless at trying to pick me apart. The funny/odd thing about most technique "debates" is that the guys arguing against proper technique haven't devoted any time to theirs.

Quite true - It's the age old problem with the popularisation of the instrument. There are so many have a go heroes, some of whom admittedly become excellent musicians, but so many don't & they all think they're right, whether they've received the correct and proper training or otherwise.

Ah well

 

[spade2you]

Quite true - It's the age old problem with the popularisation of the instrument. There are so many have a go heroes, some of whom admittedly become excellent musicians, but so many don't & they all think they're right, whether they've received the correct and proper training or otherwise.

Ah well

Very true. I also like to point out that even the great Stu Hamm had to have surgery on his hands. I think a lot of us eventually run into bandmates who have also had some sort of surgery. Efficiency and a lack of pain or surgery work for me.

 

[bassbully]

Tried it once...never again. Even when I was on the right note being slightly above pulled the note flat below sharp. I don't know how the heck anyone plays those things.

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

Very true. I also like to point out that even the great Stu Hamm had to have surgery on his hands. I think a lot of us eventually run into bandmates who have also had some sort of surgery. Efficiency and a lack of pain or surgery work for me.

Smiles... You're quite right. Economy of movement and efficiency are the only way.

 

[spade2you]

Tried it once...never again. Even when I was on the right note being slightly above pulled the note flat below sharp. I don't know how the heck anyone plays those things.

I guess I've always approached fretless bass like the bead sights of a shotgun, unlike the crosshairs of a precision rifle. After a lot of practice, you start to anticipate where the note is and be able to make the fine adjustments.

 

[Bob-I]

That's the other way of doing it As I intoned earlier, I tend to use the left hand technique and shape to guarantee the intonation, in partnership with the ears.

I recently did a setup on a Gary Willis Ibanez 5 for a local player and found that by getting the action right down and with some nice flats, I could get a really nice "mwah" sound just by playing as I would normally.

I do like the sliding sound, but tend to play fretless much like a fretted. Same as I play my double bass or cello.

I'm trying to play like an upright, 1-2-4, as much as possible but I need to use my ears to get that lt few cents of intonation.

The sliding sound gets old fast so I use it sparingly, same with vibrato. I also get a nice mwah sound from my homebuilt Pbass with a fender licensed neck and flats.

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

I'm trying to play like an upright, 1-2-4, as much as possible but I need to use my ears to get that lt few cents of intonation.

The sliding sound gets old fast so I use it sparingly, same with vibrato. I also get a nice mwah sound from my homebuilt Pbass with a fender licensed neck and flats.

Sounds like you're on the right track, Bob. Yes, you have to use your ears a lot too - It's like playing any classical stringed instrument - you need to hear the note in your head before you actually play it. It's a tricky skill to learn, but invaluable when playing sans frets. Classical vibrato also sounds lovely on a fretless (hand motion like shaking a sauce bottle!)

 

[pnchad]

yeah, it's a bit harder but a few months is all it takes if you're dedicated - don't go back and forth for a while

I started almost from the beginning around 1969 and just stayed with it - many years of full time pro playing with JUST a fretless

what most who don't play FL don;t realize is that you can play tight and exact enough to replicate a fretted instrument - I have gone whole nights in Rock situations where you just don't want a fretless vibe without even bandmates noticing - can;t do it the other way around - I even slap FL

BTW, 1, 2 & 4 is good - if you need help there it's the Simandl Method - get the book

 

[Bob-I]

Sounds like you're on the right track, Bob. Yes, you have to use your ears a lot too - It's like playing any classical stringed instrument - you need to hear the note in your head before you actually play it. It's a tricky skill to learn, but invaluable when playing sans frets. Classical vibrato also sounds lovely on a fretless (hand motion like shaking a sauce bottle!)

I learned classical style vibrato from playing slide. Lots of slide playing translates directly to fretless, except that with slide you play with just one finger

 

[zontar]

Fretless kind of scared me for a while--but eventually I tried tit on other people's basses and in stores and gradually came around to wanting to try it for real--so I got a fretless. there's a bit more to it--but that's a summary.

I did some research and found one I like to play, liked the sound & could afford.

It is harder in some ways--but it felt kind of natural to me after a while.
I'm not a virtuoso--and probably never will be--but I can fake it--and enjoy playing it.

 

[KohanMike]

I started learning the bass a little over a month ago, bought an acoustic Gold Tone GT MicroBass 23" scale with Aquila Thundergut strings, then immediately ordered a custom 21" scale u-bass that started out to be fretted (the frets you see are actually inlays), but after I converted a small guitar to a micro bass, I decided to have the custom made fretless. I'm actually looking forward to learning fretless now too.

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

I started learning the bass a little over a month ago, bought an acoustic Gold Tone GT MicroBass 23" scale with Aquila Thundergut strings, then immediately ordered a custom 21" scale u-bass that started out to be fretted (the frets you see are actually inlays), but after I converted a small guitar to a micro bass, I decided to have the custom made fretless. I'm actually looking forward to learning fretless now too.

View attachment 490818

Speaking of Uke style basses, I played a pre amped Baritone bodied Luna bass Uke at a jam a few weeks back for some jazz numbers. It was so fast and fun to play.

Going back to the subject in hand, it's really nice to find such open minded musicians on TB - I had a similar conversation regarding technique on BassChat some years ago and got flamed to death by the same sort of ignorant people mentioned by spade2u.

Thanks guys. It's really refreshing

 

[twoByFour]

... always move the hand as a single unit....

Could you elaborate on this please?
I aspire to play a fretless, as soon as I can afford one.

Thanks.

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

Could you elaborate on this please?
I aspire to play a fretless, as soon as I can afford one.

Thanks.

By all means...

Basically, pivoting on the thumb changes the shape of the hand (works well on a fretted instrument), but without frets, as soon as you change the shape of the hand your intonation is shot. Best example I can give is to watch Tal Wilkenfeld play - her left hand technique is peerless and whenever she changes position, the hand always stays in shape, always moving in perfect union with the thumb. That's one of the main ingredients. It's actually a double bass/cello technique.

Any clearer?

 

[twoByFour]

By all means...

Basically, pivoting on the thumb changes the shape of the hand (works well on a fretted instrument), but without frets, as soon as you change the shape of the hand your intonation is shot. Best example I can give is to watch Tal Wilkenfeld play - her left hand technique is peerless and whenever she changes position, the hand always stays in shape, always moving in perfect union with the thumb. That's one of the main ingredients. It's actually a double bass/cello technique.

Any clearer?

Thanks. I think so.
If I understand correctly, you're saying the fingers positions relative to the thumb should be constant. It seems like that would imply that the wrist should not flex much either. does this sound correct?

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

Yes, absolutely. The left hand should literally be shaped as if coming up from underneath the neck. Thumb should be behind the index or middle finger, creating plenty of room between the palm of the fans and the neck. Also, the thumb should never hook over the top of the neck.

Try practising a simple scale, using 124 fingering (and utilising open strings), making sure that you never take all of your fingers off when changing string, or at least wherever possible. Leaving finger(s) in reserve on the previous string means you can just move them across to the next string when you need them. This means you're working only half as hard and when you change string this way, you're making one move instead of two (taking all fingers off one string and replacing them on another string.)

 

[KohanMike]

That's how I try to play guitar and ukulele, keep the thumb behind the neck at all times, fingers positioned as straight and consistently as possible.

 

[OldDirtyBassist]

The fretless bass has more involved. There are techniques where you can kind of pull a tone with your plucking fingers. There are all the semi tones to get creative with, or ignore. Fretless is harder imo.

 

[neckdive]

When you are new fretless player, you can use your eyes for reference to train your ears. I use the strobe tuner app called InsTuner (no affiliation) seen below and just rest the iPhone or iPad up against the speaker. I use the lite free version but I think there is another paid version for a buck or two. The strobe is very responsive and accurate but most importantly to fretless players, it provides objective feedback as to whether or not you are perfectly in tune on a given note. This will get you accustomed to placing your fingers precisely in relation to the side dots and other visual cues like wood grain, scratches in the neck if any, etc.

When you look down at the side of your fingerboard, you see just dots and your fingers in relation to those dots but not really the face of the fingerboard unless you are leaning over to see it. So lines are unnecessary. I only need a dot every other position because visually, I know that I just to have place my finger halfway between two dots to hit a proper note like F#, C#, A#, etc.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

I've just bought my first fretless. It arrived a few days ago, and I've been playing it almost exclusively since. I was surprised how much easier it was than I had feared. I'm playing a lot of scales, with my tuner hooked up. I find that using a lot of open stings as aural markers is helping, as is playing with low lighting, or with my eyes closed.

When you think about it, you probably don't look at your fretboard that often when you play fretted.
I wish I'd done this before.