It's part that and part because my tempo is better when I play fast licks and don't rake.
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Is 'Raking' bad?
- Thread starter Rogue181
- Start date
Well, I mostly use Sheehan 3 finger technique, with lotsa raking. And the best part is that whenever I need to do a 2 string jump, I can play with my I/M fingers and have R to just sit there waiting for that huuuge jump. Or any other combination. I see 3 fingers as added freedom of movement, not a restricted set of rules. Just imagine how many possible funk lick fingerings one could pull off plucking with 4 fingers!
Bryan R. Tyler
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And those in favor of strict alteration using faulty arguments like the Jaco thing. Particularly faulty because Jaco raked
Wow...are you really sure you got all the answers that much?
Listen. In fact, listen to some instructionals. To be precise, listen to Dennis Chambers...drum instruction.
Hmmm. Why? OK...See, Dennis has this ridiculous independence with his hands. He hits stuff on both sides just as easy, regardless of pattern. Now...what does this have to do with raking??? Simple. Which finger you hit stuff with has as much influence on the expression as what hand you hit stuff with on the drums. Watch it, you'll see what I mean. Patterns sound different, depending on what hand plays hi-hat, f'rinstance. Likewise, a pulse on the bass can sound completely different, depending on which finger you lead with.
These subtle complexities of nuance and timing are very real, and are what add GROOVE in some instances that is deep as hell.
Me? I rake, I don't rake, I play with one finger...or 3.
It's all about what sound I want. How I want the timing...the feel.
Stop being so sure about having all the answers about technique, ok? Technique is extremely individual, and is ALL about the feel. There are no absolutes. Relax.
i quite like the sound of raking over strings as 'dead notes'
say if you play something on the top string and then are going to play something on the lowest string i quite like the sound of raking purpousfully over the strings to get to the bottom string.
say if you play something on the top string and then are going to play something on the lowest string i quite like the sound of raking purpousfully over the strings to get to the bottom string.
I like your argumentation.
Switching rapidly from raking to alternating and back and forth is difficult though, and if you are improvising I can see how it may slow one down.
Hey, you want to rake, you go right ahead, my friend. Those of us who don't rake know what we know.
Hehe JimmyM, I gotta admire your standing by your opinion so firmly.
Fwiw, I wish I'd had talkbass when I was starting out, because I started with no teacher at 14 years of age, and I honestly can't remember whether I raked or not. I got influenced by Bass Player Magazine and people I met, and I think raking somehow crept into my playing. At one time I got ahold of the Billy Sheehan video, and then I worked at his three-finger technique for a long time. I later realized that the stuff I played bass in, never required me to play at speeds that would need three-finger technique. Back to two-finger technique again
Then I got to music college, and my teacher raked. We never got scientific about it, or even thought much about it. He played awesomely, and I thought it was ok to rake. At this time though, I would notice that I could play a lot faster playing towards me, raking, than when I wanted to play a scale back up, alternating. This difference in speed and attack/tone would be frustrating, and now when I'm 33, I still struggle with the speed differences, and the acceleration needed to switch between the two if I am improvising, or playing very fast.
When I play a normal bassline, my hybrid rake/alternate technique normally has no problems at all, and the legato feel of the rake gives me a nuance in the attack that I like, coupled with alternating, it gives personality to my playing.
Now I got band practice once a week and play maybe 10 gigs a year. Would you switch to a strict alternating technique if you were me? I really can't see myself wanting to, as I feel I would be giving up personality, besides, no one has ever asked me to play faster or many more notes. (It's already hard to not overplay when you love to play )
Fwiw, I wish I'd had talkbass when I was starting out, because I started with no teacher at 14 years of age, and I honestly can't remember whether I raked or not. I got influenced by Bass Player Magazine and people I met, and I think raking somehow crept into my playing. At one time I got ahold of the Billy Sheehan video, and then I worked at his three-finger technique for a long time. I later realized that the stuff I played bass in, never required me to play at speeds that would need three-finger technique. Back to two-finger technique again
Then I got to music college, and my teacher raked. We never got scientific about it, or even thought much about it. He played awesomely, and I thought it was ok to rake. At this time though, I would notice that I could play a lot faster playing towards me, raking, than when I wanted to play a scale back up, alternating. This difference in speed and attack/tone would be frustrating, and now when I'm 33, I still struggle with the speed differences, and the acceleration needed to switch between the two if I am improvising, or playing very fast.
When I play a normal bassline, my hybrid rake/alternate technique normally has no problems at all, and the legato feel of the rake gives me a nuance in the attack that I like, coupled with alternating, it gives personality to my playing.
Now I got band practice once a week and play maybe 10 gigs a year. Would you switch to a strict alternating technique if you were me? I really can't see myself wanting to, as I feel I would be giving up personality, besides, no one has ever asked me to play faster or many more notes. (It's already hard to not overplay when you love to play
)raking is not bad. Dependancy on it is and inability to play otherwise is. Just like dependancy on any specific technique is. That's why everybody preaches the same thing. Which is learn as many techniques as you can and master all of them. So you control which techniques you use to play and are not limited by what you can do.
This makes no sense.
Raking allows exactly the same movement for each next note, which leads to regularity.
If you strictly alternate while going down strings, one of your fingers makes twice the distance the other does. It's unpractical and counter intuitive. Way to be off beat.
I can't think of a single good reason to ban raking from your playing, other than the purpose of respecting a code nobody ever wrote down.
Actually I'd be curious if you could find me a single reknown bass player who strictly alternates fingers. The whole world rakes.
I don't understand how anyone can say it's hard to switch between raking and alternate plucking. I do it all day long in the bassline for money....
I am sure that 90% (if not all) of the people in this thread are far better players than I but I find that on all the instruments I play that learning all the techniques and how to switch between them makes me a much better player.
I am sure that 90% (if not all) of the people in this thread are far better players than I but I find that on all the instruments I play that learning all the techniques and how to switch between them makes me a much better player.
The whole world also eats at McDonald's. Is that good just because the whole world does it? Oh, and Dave LaRue, bassist for Steve Morse and the John Petrucci Trio, and my former bass teacher, who told me on the first day of lessons with him that there will be no raking. There's one.
Again, you want to rake, you rake your little heart out. I've tried both ways and SA made me a lot better and smoother technically. That seems to be a problem for some of you, so you want to rake, then rake, but don't tell me I'm not a better player for not raking. I most definitely am.
Call it sweeping, and it's a good thing ;-)
Sweep picking is just Raking for pick players. Lots of guitar books/videos teach it.
It's a technique - learn it. Use AS APPROPRIATE.
Ian
Sweep picking is just Raking for pick players. Lots of guitar books/videos teach it.
It's a technique - learn it. Use AS APPROPRIATE.
Ian
+1, and Basshole too. Arbitrarily rejecting any particular technique because your teacher rapped your knuckles when you did it is just plain dumb. I don't care if you took lessons from Jaco--no one has all the answers. We all have different physiologies. You use whatever is most efficient for YOU, which is likely to be a combination of techniques. Sometimes you might even throw caution to the wind and do things which AREN'T particularly efficient because they generate the sound/feel you want. Just don't let the Technique Police catch you.
I just got that. I think I need another cup of coffee.
I was going to post "I like raking in October"
When I started playing bass I was raking because it just naturally occurred. I then took a few lessons and learned about strict alternation. It took a little while of slow practice to get the strict alternating down but I was determined to develop it. I personally like that I have learned strict alternation and use it 95% of the time when I play fingerstyle. I feel I get a more solid and consistent sound and rhythm alternating and I am very happy that I developed it. With that said I can still see where sweeping/raking can be a useful technique.
Do whatever sounds best to your ears. For me, alternating worked best.
Do whatever sounds best to your ears. For me, alternating worked best.
After the previous 'megathread' about the same subject, I started to think more about this raking vs not raking. It seems like I play more consistently if I try to avoid raking, but not always. It's definitely better to strictly alternate to make 8th and 16th note patterns sound more even, but to me Jamerson style lines sound better if I rake.
However, if I could turn the raking off easily, I would do it. It's annoying when you find you suddenly don't play the downbeat with your index but with your middle finger, or vice versa, and feel you need to switch back...
However, if I could turn the raking off easily, I would do it. It's annoying when you find you suddenly don't play the downbeat with your index but with your middle finger, or vice versa, and feel you need to switch back...
As stated by Deacon Blues, after reading the MegaThread on this topic, I starting thinking.... and me thinking is bad.
I started to try to strictly alternate, but I found some songs just WOULD NOT allow me to do it, at least not as fast as the song needed, so I do what the song calls for, or whichever feels more natural at the time. I strictly alternate on Metal Militia by Metallica, but not on Creaaping Death.
I started to try to strictly alternate, but I found some songs just WOULD NOT allow me to do it, at least not as fast as the song needed, so I do what the song calls for, or whichever feels more natural at the time. I strictly alternate on Metal Militia by Metallica, but not on Creaaping Death.
Looks like your former teacher changed his former mind.
I looked over Youtube for Dave Larue solo and the first thing I see in the first video I find is raking all over the place.
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