Is String Grounding "Safe"?

[bigbeefdog]

if the circuit your plugged into isn't grounded properly, a GFCI will not work properly.

Don't get me wrong; grounding is critical. You'll get no argument from me on that point.

But the GFCI actually WILL work in the absence of any ground at all:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's also a good practice to get one of those power outlet testers, and check them before you plug in your gear.

Big +1000 on this. These cheap gizmos can save your life.

It's almost to the point where you need to take a licensed electrician to a gig with you.

Well, actually, I do........

America really needs to update their NEC requirements...

in australia, all homes built in the last 10 years have a GFCI "safety switch" installed in the main power box that protects all of the power outlets...(lighting circuits are not protected)...

Don't disagree on the need for an update..... but I assume that you Aussies often find yourself playing in venues that were built decades ago, before the new codes were adopted? What do you typically find there? Has the Aussie equivalent of the NEC made those owners retrofit the circuits in older buildings with ground fault protection?

I hope the answer is "yes", but I fear it is likely "no".... so, circuit tester and GFCI pigtail are still things I'd wanna have in my gear bag....

 

[bigbeefdog]

What I find to be foolproof is to grab the mic, while NOT touching the strings. Then slowly bring your exposed forearm close to the strings. If there is any electrical charge across them, the hairs on your arm will get drawn to the strings, and you will feel a slight warmth.

And if your forearm gets just one millimeter TOO close to the strings, you'll see an arc flash. Which just might be the LAST thing you ever see.

Please don't "play with fire" like this. Seriously.

 

[theshadow2001]

Yep, same sort of thing, at least with respect to the monitoring for leakage and circuit interruption functions.

Nope, they're not required on all circuits; they're only required on outdoor and/or bathroom circuits, and many older installations don't have them even there. I have yet to see a power feeder at a gig that's GFCI protected.

Not to mention, playing an outdoor gig off a generator is an even WORSE scenario for potential shocks (more often than not, VERY poorly grounded)...... generator gigs were what got us started using the GFCI pigtails in the first place; now I don't leave home without 'em....

So are you telling me that most places don't come equipped with these? Just to be clear an RCBO is one of Invalid Link Removed In our house we have one of these plus a bunch of minature circuit breakers for the various circuits. I know for a fact that one these saved a friends life (or at least giving her a nasty shock) when she foolishly out of ignorance tried to lift something out of a toaster with a fork whilst it was on

Anyway no electrical circuit should be without one. Even if you do have to supply your own!

Part of the problem arises from using old gear that doesn't have a grounded or polarized plug. Even if the wall outlet is properly grounded and wired with the correct polarity, you can still plug in the old amp's power cord both ways which leads to the polarity problem. And while it is full wall voltage that makes through on the signal ground to your strings or control plate, it's at a reduced current judging by the numerous shocks I received. I don't think (not sure) that it would kill you under almost all conditions.

When I had my 60's Ampeg serviced a few years ago, it was modified very easily to have a grounded plug. The polarity switch now has no significance, and the amp is properly grounded.

I reckon the polarity switch was added before polarized and grounded plugs, and the outlets that accept them, were common. It was the equipment manufacturer's way to make it possible to always have the chassis grounded, or at least neutral, no matter which way you inserted the plug. Also, the chassis is not directly tied to one of the A/C legs, rather the polarity switch directs either leg through a capacitor on its way to the chassis. I guess this makes the ground good enough to blow a fuse if there is a direct short, but not too, too dangerous if you don't set the polarity switch correctly.

Thats interesting. We have 3 pinned plugs here for years(and years). So live is always live and neutral is always neutral. I didn't even know you could plug things in either way on american style sockets. I can't remember ever seeing a polarity switch on an amp or other equipment. However I've been playing about 6 or so years and I havent used any really old equipment.


Maybe everyone should start bringing multimeters to gigs and stick it between the mic and bass to see what voltage they are getting.

 

[bigbeefdog]

So are you telling me that most places don't come equipped with these?

I'm telling you that never.... ever.... not once..... have I encountered, at a gig, a power strip/outlet/etc. that had circuit interrupter protection.

Not ever. Not a single time. This is the reason the GFCI pigtails, along with a circuit tester, are staples of my gear bag.

And breakers of that sort are quite rare on this side of the pond. What is far more common are GFCI outlets, rather than breakers, with the test and reset buttons on the outlet (I suspect it's believed they'll be tested more frequently if the test can be accomplished without going into the breaker box). They are now required by NEC for outdoor/kitchen/washroom circuits, but many older buildings have never been updated.

Furthermore, I can think of at least two public swimming pools, within a few miles of my house, that have no ground fault interrupter of any kind on the *submerged pool lights*. Needless to say, my kids will never swim in either of those pools.

 

[PilbaraBass]

Furthermore, I can think of at least two public swimming pools, within a few miles of my house, that have no ground fault interrupter of any kind on the *submerged pool lights*. Needless to say, my kids will never swim in either of those pools.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

In this day and age of public liability...I find it amazing that local municipalities don't spend a few extra dollars and make the NECESSARY improvements to their public facilities.

America needs to pass a moritorium on outdated circuitry and get it together.

1) 3-prong, earthed outlets EVERYWHERE...no more 2-prongers...

2) GFCI protection for ALL power points and all outdoor or submerged lighting circuits...

PERIOD!

which reminds me...I need to have a serious talk with my brother and sisters and parents in Pennsylvania about THEIR power systems.

 

[Baleen]

Thats interesting. We have 3 pinned plugs here for years(and years). So live is always live and neutral is always neutral. I didn't even know you could plug things in either way on american style sockets. I can't remember ever seeing a polarity switch on an amp or other equipment. However I've been playing about 6 or so years and I havent used any really old equipment.

Yeah. I believe most anything made in the 80's and beyond, especially sensitive equipment, is grounded or atleast has a polarized plug. But there's still enough older equipment, or equipment with ground plugs cut off (because a club didn't update its wiring to 3-pronged, grounded outlets) that you can still find your way into trouble. Newer equipment is also generally wired differently to also avoid connecting the chassis to anything but the ground wire to eliminate this/danger.

 

[theshadow2001]

Truly shocking. In all sense of the word