- Oct 18, 2012
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Is there a time when it IS too late to learn ?
- Thread starter fearceol
- Start date
Diabolus I bet there are solutions- pick playing, perhaps with a harness that attaches to your forearm so you don't have to hold the pick in your hand. Will it make playing harder? Probably yes. Impossible? I like to think no. Whether it's worth it to you is up to you. I hope the arthritis stays away for a long, long time.
No, never too late to learn.
And I have seen many people with physical challenges work around them, and not only continue learning and progressing, but become formidable.
And I have seen many people with physical challenges work around them, and not only continue learning and progressing, but become formidable.
It is never too late to learn. I am in my 50's and work to learn something new all the time. I have been playing for a long time (I still have my original '69 jazz bass) and still there is so much more to learn and do. You can learn other styles, different genres, technique, practice sight reading, etc. etc. This is one of the great gifts of music - it's long history and great depth and width. Getting bored? Take a course in harmony. Dexterity? All kinds of exerises out there. Speed? Etc.
Aging does have it's issues however. I don't think I am as fast as I used to be, but I do think I play a lot smarter. I do sometimes play with pain, and so am adding more stretching exercises into my routine to keep my flexibility.
As long as you have your mind and love music, you can learn. I hear new things all the time. I just listened to some old music from the 60's that was a favorite when I was a kid - I was hearing all kinds of things that I am sure didn't register when I was young. One song went very quickly through 3 time signatures in the first 30 seconds before settling in to a nice slow groove - and I thought wow! because it worked.
Even with weak hands you can still play, and you can still work your mind. And when you can't play, you can still learn and listen to all the great recorded music out there.
Aging does have it's issues however. I don't think I am as fast as I used to be, but I do think I play a lot smarter. I do sometimes play with pain, and so am adding more stretching exercises into my routine to keep my flexibility.
As long as you have your mind and love music, you can learn. I hear new things all the time. I just listened to some old music from the 60's that was a favorite when I was a kid - I was hearing all kinds of things that I am sure didn't register when I was young. One song went very quickly through 3 time signatures in the first 30 seconds before settling in to a nice slow groove - and I thought wow! because it worked.
Even with weak hands you can still play, and you can still work your mind. And when you can't play, you can still learn and listen to all the great recorded music out there.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I think it has far more to do with one's affinity for music than age.
Some folks just don't have "it," and never will, no matter when they begin, how much they study, or how hard they work, while others achieve "effortless mastery," irrespective of the age at which they commence.
Can't make sourdough without a starter.
Some folks just don't have "it," and never will, no matter when they begin, how much they study, or how hard they work, while others achieve "effortless mastery," irrespective of the age at which they commence.
Can't make sourdough without a starter.
... sort of.
I've actually been thinking about this question a lot lately based on a few things. The first is a point brought up in a Linguistics class I took this semester: the concept of a "critical period" for language acquisition. The consensus amongst linguists is that all human babies are born with an intrinsic language faculty that allows us to learn vocabulary, universal grammar, idioms, and inflective clues (essentially language as a whole), assuming that the individual has some linguistic input, which essentially means hearing the language on a regular basis. This faculty exists until we're about seven or eight, declines gently towards puberty, and after 14 or so drops off drastically to the point that after 20 or so we cannot learn a language. Countless studies have been done- here's two cases of people who didn't have linguistic input:
Isabelle (last name not given) was discovered in the 1960s at age 6. She had been locked in a dark room by herself- her only contact was her deaf and mute mother. She acquired language once she was freed and came into contact with other children, and went on to live a relatively normal life.
Chelsea (again, last not given) was brought to scientists at age 31 from a loving home. She had been previously diagnosed as mentally handicapped, but it was discovered that she was actually quite deaf instead. Doctors fitted her with hearing aids and she went on to acquire a large vocabulary, but did not master grammar.
In as many words, a critical period of linguistic input is necessary to fully master language. That's not to say that you can't acquire some ability- plenty of individuals have gained rudimentary communication skills after said critical period.
Now, take this and apply it to music- does it happen the same way? Take Victor Wooten's approach to music as an example- he believes it to be a language just like any other system of human communication. Wooten hypothesizes that we should learn music and spoken word in the same way- by 'jamming' with people who are better than us. People don't put babies into a 'beginners class' and isolate them from other speakers. (WARNING: from hereon out I'm putting out nothing but conjecture) So according to Wooten's logic, music has a critical period. And why not? Other things- cats' eyesight and even birdsong have been scientifically proven to have critical periods.
So, having started at 14 years old, I'm right on the cusp of being able to fully acquire the 'language of the bass.' Anyone who started after puberty probably won't be able to gain "native proficiency" on it- and there's a good chance I won't either. Maybe the idioms and 'grammar' of the bass will be lost on you and I forever. But, there could be hope, too. Plenty of people who started later in life can get pretty damn good at the instrument. Does this disprove the theory?
Not at all. Even if you didn't know what a bass guitar was until you were 18, you more than likely had musical "linguistic input."
Your mother probably sang you lullabies as a baby, you walked around singing nonsensical things at three or four years old (jamming!) , and you heard music on the radio as your dad drove you to soccer practice. Or those songs you'd hear at church if you went. Commercial jingles. Theme songs. We don't realize it, but the world is constantly feeding us with the musical equivalent of "linguistic input."
TL;DR: While someone might not be able to fully master the bass and express themselves fully, it's certainly possible for someone who started playing later in life to become a "native" musician.
I've actually been thinking about this question a lot lately based on a few things. The first is a point brought up in a Linguistics class I took this semester: the concept of a "critical period" for language acquisition. The consensus amongst linguists is that all human babies are born with an intrinsic language faculty that allows us to learn vocabulary, universal grammar, idioms, and inflective clues (essentially language as a whole), assuming that the individual has some linguistic input, which essentially means hearing the language on a regular basis. This faculty exists until we're about seven or eight, declines gently towards puberty, and after 14 or so drops off drastically to the point that after 20 or so we cannot learn a language. Countless studies have been done- here's two cases of people who didn't have linguistic input:
Isabelle (last name not given) was discovered in the 1960s at age 6. She had been locked in a dark room by herself- her only contact was her deaf and mute mother. She acquired language once she was freed and came into contact with other children, and went on to live a relatively normal life.
Chelsea (again, last not given) was brought to scientists at age 31 from a loving home. She had been previously diagnosed as mentally handicapped, but it was discovered that she was actually quite deaf instead. Doctors fitted her with hearing aids and she went on to acquire a large vocabulary, but did not master grammar.
In as many words, a critical period of linguistic input is necessary to fully master language. That's not to say that you can't acquire some ability- plenty of individuals have gained rudimentary communication skills after said critical period.
Now, take this and apply it to music- does it happen the same way? Take Victor Wooten's approach to music as an example- he believes it to be a language just like any other system of human communication. Wooten hypothesizes that we should learn music and spoken word in the same way- by 'jamming' with people who are better than us. People don't put babies into a 'beginners class' and isolate them from other speakers. (WARNING: from hereon out I'm putting out nothing but conjecture) So according to Wooten's logic, music has a critical period. And why not? Other things- cats' eyesight and even birdsong have been scientifically proven to have critical periods.
So, having started at 14 years old, I'm right on the cusp of being able to fully acquire the 'language of the bass.' Anyone who started after puberty probably won't be able to gain "native proficiency" on it- and there's a good chance I won't either. Maybe the idioms and 'grammar' of the bass will be lost on you and I forever. But, there could be hope, too. Plenty of people who started later in life can get pretty damn good at the instrument. Does this disprove the theory?
Not at all. Even if you didn't know what a bass guitar was until you were 18, you more than likely had musical "linguistic input."
Your mother probably sang you lullabies as a baby, you walked around singing nonsensical things at three or four years old (jamming!) , and you heard music on the radio as your dad drove you to soccer practice. Or those songs you'd hear at church if you went. Commercial jingles. Theme songs. We don't realize it, but the world is constantly feeding us with the musical equivalent of "linguistic input."
TL;DR: While someone might not be able to fully master the bass and express themselves fully, it's certainly possible for someone who started playing later in life to become a "native" musician.
I had cubital tunnel problems a few years ago (numbness in the pinky and ring finger). I could only play for 60-90 minutes without pain, so I was considering switching to playing left-handed. Fortunately, post-surgery I can play without pain, so I didn't have to switch. The continuing numbness did end my guitar lessons, though.
If you really want to keep playing bass, you may need to make that transition.
Oops, sorry. I misread your post, and thought your left hand was the problem.
Provided you still have your marbles mentally (no dementia etc etc)......and provided no physical restrictions or injury or illness hold a person back....then it's never too late to learn
Actually you can learn anything at any age if you fit the above mentioned criteria
But it's more about desire than just learning....
If you love something it's easier to learn than just learning
for the sake of it.
Learning is the goal...Desire is the fuel.
I've never taken a formal music lesson in my life.
That didn't stop me from writing over 65 songs, recording a cd on a Motif XS6 (playing every track, every instrument).
learning the keyboard, and learning guitar/bass guitar.
I can now read music.
I made the cd when I was 60.
Started off in music when I was about 18.
Didn't know how to tune a guitar and played it for 5 years incorrectly tuned....
........it sounded good but one day I found out it was all wrong....so had to relearn.
I had just tuned it my own way without reference to anything. The strings were all "On Key".....but not tuned anything like a normal guitar.
Desire is everything.....
Actually you can learn anything at any age if you fit the above mentioned criteria
But it's more about desire than just learning....
If you love something it's easier to learn than just learning
for the sake of it.
Learning is the goal...Desire is the fuel.
I've never taken a formal music lesson in my life.
That didn't stop me from writing over 65 songs, recording a cd on a Motif XS6 (playing every track, every instrument).
learning the keyboard, and learning guitar/bass guitar.
I can now read music.
I made the cd when I was 60.
Started off in music when I was about 18.
Didn't know how to tune a guitar and played it for 5 years incorrectly tuned....
........it sounded good but one day I found out it was all wrong....so had to relearn.I had just tuned it my own way without reference to anything. The strings were all "On Key".....but not tuned anything like a normal guitar.
Desire is everything.....
The human mind is an amazing thing. The potential is staggering -- off the charts.
A big reason we don't tap its full potential is because we fear that we're dumber or less capable than we are.
A little bit of passion for playing music steamrolls right past our fears of incompetency. We may not become the next Jaco, but we may end up playing some satisfying music, thereby enriching our life.
Can I walk to South America? Not sure.
Can I put one foot in front of the other in that direction? You betcha.
A big reason we don't tap its full potential is because we fear that we're dumber or less capable than we are.
A little bit of passion for playing music steamrolls right past our fears of incompetency. We may not become the next Jaco, but we may end up playing some satisfying music, thereby enriching our life.
Can I walk to South America? Not sure.
Can I put one foot in front of the other in that direction? You betcha.
I read that post 63 and your reply 82. Here's my comment on that:
If your lifeless body is about to be placed in the cremation furnace, then it's probably too late to start playing bass. That's about the only scenario I can think of where it would probably be too late.
Other than that, I say grab a bass and play to your heart's content. That is what life is for......being happy in what you do, whether you are 5, or 85.
And for goodness sakes, if any human tells you that it's too late for you to do something you want to do in your life, simply point in the direction of the nearest beach where that human can pound sand all day long.
Couldn't agree more!
The great thing about playing music is that it focuses your mind on the "Now".
Worrying about whether you should play is being trapped in the Then.
Ironically, to even allow yourself to take up bass requires a little playful and brave leap into the Now.
My grandmother takes piano lessons at 82 years old. She is also in two college courses. And although she has been retired for a couple decades now, she still reads all the medical journals she can get her hands on so she can keep up to date on the latest cutting-edge medical.... stuff.
At this time of night I am too lazy to go back and research the other thread. Are you older than 82 OP?
At this time of night I am too lazy to go back and research the other thread. Are you older than 82 OP?
^^^ THAT is awesome!!!
This thread reminds me of a couple of memorable quotes:
"Get busy livin, or get busy dyin"
-and-
"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing"
Excellent, excellent post!
As one who started Japanese long after 20 though, I have to disagree, unless your meaning is that we can't learn it well enough to be transparent users. There are times however, even when people can see my face, that they think I grew up speaking it. (Of course there are those other times too.
)I've always thought of music as a conversation, and it's how I learned to play, jamming. The important thing in a band is that everyone is on the same page, and to have a proper jamming atmosphere, you have to become intensively sensitive to what else is 'being said' so that your responses and pauses don't conflict with the rest of the 'conversation', but rather support it.
It can be pretty fun playing with people you've never met and having audience come up and ask how long 'the band' has been together.
Your last point, about the constant 'unrecognized input' is so spot on too, and is largely responsible for a lot of Jimi Hendix's influences, obviously far removed from blues, that he acquired from television, movies etc.
No time too late, because we've constantly been bombarded with related material and to start learning is to start organizing what we've already been subjected to.
Love both of these points and so many of man's accomplishments start off with the achiever 'knowing' they're not going to succeed, but trying anyway.
I don't like being harsh with others, but when they can come up with something so harsh as the attempt to destroy the dreams of others, this post about sums it up for me!...if any human tells you that it's too late for you to do something you want to do in your life, simply point in the direction of the nearest beach where that human can pound sand all day long.
And then there are the ones who have no clue that they're not supposed to succeed, but just flow with their passion!
They almost invariably get somewhere you wouldn't expect.
