Double Bass Is there room for a small "How To" book?

[David Potts]

Thanks to Youtube there is now so much visual material available from teachers like Andrew Anderson, Lauren Pierce, Tom Martin and Discover Double Bass people. When combined with a Tutor like Simandl does this provide enough information to guide a beginner who is self-teaching.

I have often wondered about the value of a small book, a beginner's companion that shared the music stand. It could be a guide, a way to explain in simple terms not only how but why to do things, especially about bowing and combining the two hands. Simandl does provide a systematic approach to get the LH going but leaves so much about technique for a teacher to flesh out.

If you think back on how you learned the bass, or are currently learning, would you agree? If so, what should such a book include?

 

[unbrokenchain]

If you’re talking about one for total beginners, I think posture and left arm technique (and how it relates to the hand) could be “most important,” Rufus Reid does pretty good but still lacks some key details IMO.

 

[turf3]

I agree on posture and bow hold. The pictures in most instructional books are woefully inadequate for actually guiding the student. Typically they're taken too close up and from an odd angle that makes it impossible to determine the actual angles at which things are held, there aren't enough photos from different angles, and they're usually supplemented with instructions like "turn palm outward" which are unclear compared to showing.

Since most instructional material is pretty old, when photographs were time consuming and expensive (or actually using illustrations), this is understandable, but nowadays with digital imaging there's no excuse for not showing multiple perspectives, clearly photographed, from sufficient distance to avoid distortion, of every area of concern.

 

[Tom Lane]

I think there is, but, I also think it'd be better presented as a video because once you start discussing such topics as coordination between the hands, positioning the bass, getting a pleasant tone bowing, what's defines a good setup, using your arm weight, and keeping your fingers curved, all of that is better displayed on a video than by description in a book. I've been thinking the ideal video would have an experienced teacher working through these topics with one or two students. Get a tall one and a short one and now explaining how to hold a bass should become much clearer.

 

[eerbrev]

I think something with a quick list of stuff that doesn't come up all the time would be nice. Like a quick reference for bassists.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

It is amazing how the instructional information out there keeps evolving. Sometimes two equally qualified experts will have polar approaches.

For example Gary Karr leans his bass forward into the bow, Francois Rabbath flattens it horizontal with the Laborie endpin. David Moore often uses the edge of the hair, Gary Karr uses the hair flat. Klaus Stoll will bow at an angle to the string etc

A guide book would be great but there is so many contradictory opinions out there. A teacher helps us through all this of course. YouTube and the method books are useful but will never replace a teacher.

I still take the occasional lesson with a symphony pro. I record them and it helps my playing and inspiration. His boss, the local symphony principle bassist, messaged me recently about my first teacher from over 40 years ago. He is currently taking instruction with my old teacher. This reinforces to me we should always keep learning.

So I agree a modern guide book as David describes will be useful. Along with YouTube videos, method books and a teacher.

 

[Happy Steve]

I think Zoom webinars could be a useful analogy here. People might watch the video recording of a webinar once or perhaps twice for learning or inspiration. The text transcript can be very useful however for quickly checking 'what did they say again about... X?', compared to winding back and forward to find something in the video.

 

[The Biz]

I think what is difficult to grasp is how much rosin and tension for the bow. Don't know how a book can really help, but I change my mind every week.

(BTW, the extra book with just photos (and no fingering etudes) is one of the best things about Rabbath's methods)...

 

[Dogfightgiggle]

Sometimes I wish I had a Simandl companion. Just commentary on each page. What the goal should be, why the fingerings are what they are, ways to use the material in different ways.

 

[BrotherMister]

It is amazing how the instructional information out there keeps evolving. Sometimes two equally qualified experts will have polar approaches.

For example Gary Karr leans his bass forward into the bow, Francois Rabbath flattens it horizontal with the Laborie endpin. David Moore often uses the edge of the hair, Gary Karr uses the hair flat. Klaus Stoll will bow at an angle to the string etc

A guide book would be great but there is so many contradictory opinions out there. A teacher helps us through all this of course. YouTube and the method books are useful but will never replace a teacher.

I still take the occasional lesson with a symphony pro. I record them and it helps my playing and inspiration. His boss, the local symphony principle bassist, messaged me recently about my first teacher from over 40 years ago. He is currently taking instruction with my old teacher. This reinforces to me we should always keep learning.

So I agree a modern guide book as David describes will be useful. Along with YouTube videos, method books and a teacher.

Not to detract from this thread but I love this. It genuinely fills me with so much joy to see things like that happening. I'm sure we all know people who maybe studied at university, got a degree in music and have never had another lesson. Whereas I'm exactly like you, I still go to check in or learn from the best people I can. Which is something I never hide from my own students either because I want them to understand this is a long term journey that never ends for any of us.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Sometimes I wish I had a Simandl companion. Just commentary on each page. What the goal should be, why the fingerings are what they are, ways to use the material in different ways.

I think that one of the best things I do for my students is to pass on things I was told by teachers and mentors from many years ago that may have taken me more time than I care to think about to fully process and understand. If I can clarify some concept such as fingerings in Simandl or hands-on issues that might come up in a book or video but not really dealt with there but I have had demonstrated or explained to me at some point I am happy. I've been given a lot of suggestions and help over the years that I've been able to pass on that I have never seen anywhere in print. They can save a lot of time and frustration for the individual student or section mate. How these could be organized in book or video form I have no idea since so much depends on the particular situation.

 

[massimo]

I'm sure that today what will make a real difference would be a method combining a book (explications and exercises) and videos (for ALL the exercises) so you can check visually and aurally ( how it should sound). For example videos can show and teach all the different kinds of bow strokes, this is impossible with a method book only. I like a lot "Incredible Useful Exercises" by D. Whitaker because it uses this concept: you can buy the books and on youtube you find for free the videos that explain and show all the exercises in a detailed way.

 

[Ed S]

I'm curious what exactly would be in such a "small" book. As Casey says, there are a lot of differing opinions out there, as well as different styles. I think it would be quite a challenge to keep a book simple enough to be easy to use, while still containing enough material to be useful.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I think a book like this would benefit from more pictures than words, and as suggested should primarily address the physical aspects of bass playing and not the music. How to stand/sit with the bass, how to work the left hand, how to hold and work the bow(german & french), and how to play jazz/classical pizz. I liked the idea of adding rosin guidance that was suggested. There should be no written music in the book.

 

[David Potts]

I have been thinking some more about such a book and left wondering slightly about what sort of age and experience spreads to aim for. From the many questions posed in TB threads one group appears to be older players with experience in other genres coming more lately to the bow? Another is the college students already playing who might benefit from some infill of theory? Or younger people just starting off? Or people trying to teach themselves because of isolation or lack of money? Perhaps your suggestion, Seanto, would work best for all the above. Well said.

Many TB followers here strongly advocate the Simandl Tutors while also promoting the benefits of having a teacher to cover all the how-to information that they do not contain. As a student I was aware of other Methods and bought some for my library (eg Nanny, Streicher and Barry Green) but never gave them my full attention. More recently there is now a Facebook group called Vintage Double Bass Methods - Classical and Jazz that opened my eyes to the long history of people "having a go" at Methods to improve understanding. How many of them were driven by frustration with the oldest tutors we might never know

There are also other Facebook sites possibly of some eye candy interest -

French Double Bass School, started by Ken Smith
Double Basses from the Italian, German and fFench Schools, also started by Ken
Double Basses for Sale

You may know of more

 

[Bruce Calin]

I'm trying to recall off the top of my head how many method books I own. A partial list: Simandl(two books), Rabbath(three), Vance(five), O. Zimmerman, Grodner, O'Brien, Bradetich, Green(three), Morton(three), Drew(two, I think), Bille, and the jazz books: Haggart, Goldsby, Micheal Moore, Rick Laird, etc. This isn't counting the videos. Those are just the ones I remember without searching for all of them. They all have something to offer but require differing levels of previous knowledge or personal instruction. As a largely self-taught player myself, especially early on, I think good instruction in the beginning is the best way to go. The various theories of expertise(10,000 hours,etc.) stress that a necessary component of learning a skill is feedback from a knowledgeable source. I don't know how you would get that without some personal context. I probably needed fewer books and more lessons.

 

[David Potts]

Vintage Double Bass Methods was started by Steve Boisen FYI.

 

[jssherman]

The various theories of expertise(10,000 hours,etc.) stress that a necessary component of learning a skill is feedback from a knowledgeable source.

Exactly this for me! Coming from bass guitar, I started learning double bass last year and with all the books, YouTube, etc. I still needed confirmation from someone that what I was doing with the bow was “correct”, because nothing about it sounded correct to me.

I love the idea of a small guide to accompany all the other resources out there, though for me at least, having a teacher has been almost a necessity.