Is this a bad sign?

[Tazziedevil]

As long as everyone can follow, It's no big deal.

I can read music and know my fretboard, but sometimes "E string, 4th fret" works better for the other person then "Ab" (especially if they don't know their fretboard as well as some do).

 

[kalanb]

Not being able to chart has nothing to do with having a good ear or not.

That’s beside the point. But if you’re going to chart your own original song to use for auditions, it should be accurate. But that’s just me.

 

[fhm555]

If you need an excuse to bail, one’s just as good as any other.

 

[bolophonic]

I frequently play with other self-taught musicians who employ all sorts of means besides “theory” to communicate. I have studied theory, but I’m generally more comfortable composing original, riff-based music with players who communicate in “artistic” terms than the more studious types, but it helps to have both types in the band.

 

[vvvmmm]

As long as everyone can follow, It's no big deal.

I can read music and know my fretboard, but sometimes "E string, 4th fret" works better for the other person then "Ab" (especially if they don't know their fretboard as well as some do).

Wait - I thought that was, "G#"?

 

[Engle]

If you’re enjoying it otherwise, it’s not that big of a deal. When I play with people that communicate with fret numbers, I just say the note name when I reply:
“Ok the riff is an F# sliding into a G and then it goes A & D”

Music theory is after all “theory”.
And some music doesn’t follow the present theory.

The keyboard /trumpet player in my cover band is classically trained (and has a masters in music theory).
She says “Carry on Wayward Son” makes no sense at all.

 

[vvvmmm]

Does she at least admit it sounds good?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

So I am joining my first band. A metal originals band. At 41 years old. So obviously, we already have record contracts and 5,000-seat gigs booked. I went and jammed for the first time with them, and they want me to come back. I was nervous and screwed up a couple times, but I was able to jam along and even make a couple of seemingly well-received suggestions regarding some of the riffs/songs they were writing. +1 for me, yay.

The thing that caught my attention is that every time one of the guitar players showed me or the other guitar player a riff, it was usually phrased as "I'm on the 3rd fret, 5th string, slide to the 5th, then <whatever>". It was not described "I play C, slide to D, then <whatever>". Only one time when I asked for a chord progression was I given letters. I didn't get minor or major, either. The thing is, I'm not versed enough to know when certain chords are minor or major in any given key. I am versed enough to know to play a b3 in minor triads, a b3 and b5 in diminished triads, etc. Would this be concerning to anyone? Or should I just roll with it and see where it goes? I'm obviously not in it for money, and playing out is a long shot from my vantage point right now. I just want to get better and eventually play in front of people, either with this group or another one.

Learn the lingo. Also, record your rehearsals. It’s the fastest way to get you up to speed.

 

[40Hz]

Been there. No big deal really. Roll with it.

If you get signed on start slowly and gently educating them. Once communications becomes easier and they see the advantages of using standard music terminology they’ll probably at least come up to basic proficiency.

 

[rocmonster]

Start a jazz band. Everyone will play what ever they want and no one will know the difference.

after all Jazz sounds like cars honking and ducks quacking...

 

[vvvmmm]

Also, record your rehearsals.

This right here needs to be a sticky.

 

[Tazziedevil]

Wait - I thought that was, "G#"?

Wait, what? There's a G#?

 

[Tazziedevil]

Wait - I thought that was, "G#"?

True story though - a few weeks ago the guitarist was showing me a riff he wrote [counting frets to get the note name]:
"Okay - It's A, D, Eb, C, Bb"

I get it under my fingers and we play it, only it sounds bad. I stop and we look at the riff again - Turns out he miscounted the frets and He was playing it a step lower than me. If he'd just said "E string, 7th fret" we would have been all good!

Also funny: The next time I assumed we were going to play it starting on the B, He thought it would start on the "A" so we were a step apart again, only in the opposite direction the second time.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi 46and2

Only one time when I asked for a chord progression was I given letters. I didn't get minor or major, either. The thing is, I'm not versed enough to know when certain chords are minor or major in any given key.

A lot of metal is neither major nor minor! It's not always chord based!

Even when a (guitar) riff is based on a major pentatonic scale, it doesn't mean

that you (the bass) should use the major third! It will sound toooo cheesy! (or like a blues rock)

That's why guitarists prefer to give you just a letter (the root)

You will have to find out for yourself which notes work with their riffs!

should I just roll with it and see where it goes?

Relax! Metal isn't modal Jazz!

Most metal guitarists don't use tons of different scales. They stick too "their thing".

Train your ear! Play what you hear and have fun!


greetings

Wise(b)ass

Wise(b)ass

 

[LBS-bass]

That’s beside the point. But if you’re going to chart your own original song to use for auditions, it should be accurate. But that’s just me.

Not beside the point at all. If you have a gift, you probably haven't figured out why you need all that other stuff, because you can play well anyway. If you're gifted AND lucky, you might fall in with some people who recognize your gift and are willing to help you figure out how to translate that to paper or words that other musicians understand. Not every gifted person is that lucky. But being able to chart has zero to do with being gifted in music, and being gifted in music is something not many people know anything about, so why offer criticism of someone you don't have a prayer of understanding?

But you don't want to play with someone who may be extraordinarily talented because he hasn't yet learned all the theory you know. I guess you just get what you get, in that case.

 

[kalanb]

Not beside the point at all. If you have a gift, you probably haven't figured out why you need all that other stuff, because you can play well anyway. If you're gifted AND lucky, you might fall in with some people who recognize your gift and are willing to help you figure out how to translate that to paper or words that other musicians understand. Not every gifted person is that lucky. But being able to chart has zero to do with being gifted in music, and being gifted in music is something not many people know anything about, so why offer criticism of someone you don't have a prayer of understanding?

But you don't want to play with someone who may be extraordinarily talented because he hasn't yet learned all the theory you know. I guess you just get what you get, in that case.

Man, you’re making a lot of assumptions and forming opinions that are not reflective of the situation or me. The guy wasn’t gifted, but he was a jerk.

And I’ll stand by my point that if you’re putting together a band and email someone a chart of an original you wrote, the chart should be accurate. And if it’s not accurate don’t be a jerk when someone follows your chart when playing through the song for the first time at the end of an audition.

And so you don’t make any more inaccurate assumptions here’s an example of what his chart looked like:
A/E/b/F#
E/b/g#/F#

Here’s an example of the actual changes.
D/f#/G/A
D/C/b/C

 

[tshapiro]

Not a bad sign. Here are the growth phases:

1) Call out chords without major/minor because you don't have proper awareness

2) Use major/minor meticulously and get frustrated with anyone who doesn't as well

3) Stop using the major/minor distinction because it's obvious based on the key

I actually find it easiest to call out the key and then the chord degrees (Phase3 also called Nashville). Either "This one's in F, start on F up to the 6 and then to the 2 tag the 5 and back to 1." I know this means F Dm Gm C7 (the 7th being optional but common)
OR
"This one's in F, start on F up to the D and then to the G tag the C and back to the F." Same thing, I know it's F Dm GM C7.

After all, sheet music works the same way. Once the key is stated, only deviations from the key are noted.

I can usually get a feel for what level of musicians I'm working with and do my best to tailor my narrative towards them. But, I will inadvertently leave off notation here and there because it's overkill when working with pros who understand chord patterns. And when I was younger in my career I had pros get frustrated with me when I played the literal and did not deduct based on the key.

 

[80jazz]

In that sort of gig, I would be more surprised if they knew theory.

If you like the music and you like them, I would just roll with it. IME it isn't common for rock guys to know theory very well.

 

[FrenchBassQC]

Nah, go for it and enjoy, you might be very surprised with the outcome at one point maybe...