What problem? He thinks he has a problem Because he is not following some predetermined opinion that he needs to play a certain way. If he favors his middle finger, so what?
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Is This A Major Problem?
- Thread starter Mr Cheese
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What problem? He thinks he has a problem Because he is not following some predetermined opinion that he needs to play a certain way. If he favors his middle finger, so what?
He's having to do awkward things so he can lead with his middle finger at all times, that's what's so what. Nothing wrong with having a finger you like to lead with most of the time, but when a riff forces you into leading with another finger and it ends up feeling and sounding awkward to adjust the plucking so you can lead with your favorite finger, then it's a problem.
Geddy spent decades using both fingers before he ever even thought of using one finger for some things he does (notice he doesn't do it ALL of the time). I don't recall ever seeing him using one finger until maybe sometime in the last 10 years or so.
And as I mentioned before, he (and you and me) ain't Geddy.
I agree with you that there is no “single” way to play.
But I am also very willing to bet my farm and every animal on it that your very own opinion might be very different if you spent the next 6 months working on nice clean alt finger right hand technique.
There is no “single” way to play but there is almost always a “better” way.
I disagree with Jimmy on the single point of calling it “bad habits” or “bad technique”.
I would simply say that there is a “better technique” that will help you play cleaner and more musically.
Why would you NOT want to break a bad habit? And yes there ARE bad habits. 
I'm not the world's best sugarcoater. I admit it. But there are definitely bad habits and bad technique. And since my goal in answering questions is to see people improve, I gotta call 'em as I see 'em.
Sure what is good for anybody else is good for Geddy too. Because he is famous it doesn’t mean he can’t learn something new.
GL was using the same occasional single finger technique back when I was in high school and first getting into Rush. That was in the late 70's; I observed the index-only thing in the middle of the pickups in his Rick days, that he still does frequently on his jazz bass. He's probably done that from the get-go, but only GL knows for sure.
As for the bad-technique/right-way-to-play thread, this is also a frequent one here on TB and it also tends to end up the same way every time: some vehemently arguing there is such a thing, some arguing there isn't. And basically it all ends up inconclusive one way or the other.
I've had various positions on this over the years, but I've settled on the idea that the best way to play is what allows you to get your job done the best. Meaning, good and bad technique depends on a) what your job is on the bass and b) what physical machinery you have available to play the bass. b) includes physical impairments that may modify what good technique is for you, and a) is the most important one.
Basically, you optimize your technique around what your job is. The music drives that and not the other way around. And similarly for other aspects like tone and even what type of bass you use.
Main reason being, we have so many different types of jobs that we do on the EB that the techniques we use for getting those jobs done vary quite widely also. Also, the EB is still a very young instrument (compared to many symphonic instruments for example, that have been around for 100's of years) so it doesn't have the pedagogical history yet that the older instruments have.
In saying that, it's possible that one day there will be a standardized good technique that applies to all EB playing, but that day isn't today. For now, we just have to knock down the roadblocks to our playing as we encounter them, and as best we can. Until then, the investment in a "good technique" that doesn't apply to your current musical/playing style is debatable.
In the OP's case, his job has grown a bit until it requires a technique upgrade where it wasn't required before. There's nothing wrong with that and that's just normally how things go as our musical jobs evolve. In that case, I would argue that the right technique to study is the one that'll be most helpful in accomplishing whatever his musical/playing goals are...
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Maybe you could quote these people on TB who say Geddy is wrong and needs to practice alternating fingers. Unless of course you're just making it up.
I saw Rush in 1981 or 82, and seen many vids of him over the years, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing him use one finger until more recent times. But I have no problem taking you at your word. However, Geddy also has zero problem using a very solid two-finger technique when he needs to. I've seen him do it plenty.
As for technique not being agreed upon, yes, people are developing new techniques to this day. Pick, pick and fingers, three fingers, thumb and three fingers, and thumb and four finger techniques are being used, and that is good. Technique is not a static thing. But the more techniques you have at your disposal, the fewer limitations you will have. That is a fact that can't be argued. Yeah, Jamerson only used one finger. Yeah, Geddy sometimes uses one finger. But the points that are always lost when people bring up famous players and their techniques or lack of them are:
1. People who ask questions like our OP are looking to overcome their limitations.
2. You ain't Jamerson or Geddy.
LOL...well Geddy can do alternating fingers just fineMaybe you could quote these people on TB who say Geddy is wrong and needs to practice alternating fingers. Unless of course you're just making it up.
But yeah, I learned not to question great players when I took trumpet lessons in high school. I told my teacher I had just seen Maynard Ferguson on TV, and he was hooking his right hand thumb and little finger into the trumpet, which he told me not to do. I also saw Dizzy Gillespie puffing out his cheeks, which was also a big no-no for the student trumpeter. My trumpet teacher said, "When you get better than Maynard or Dizzy, you can tell them. Till then, do it the way I tell you."And I did!
Well what we're talking about here is the idea of whether there is something called "bad technique" or the right or wrong way to play the EB. Not necessarily the mere fact that different techniques exist; that's very true, but it's not really the question.
My position, again, is that the ROI of this or that technique is the better way to think about it than whether it falls into "good" or "bad" technique. Having multiple techniques available to get your job done actually has a questionable ROI. The time and effort spent learning techniques that you might never use, or that don't materially impact how you play and sound with the music you enjoy playing (or are paid to play), might actually be a waste of time.
For example, if the gig is a genre like Motown or something like Austin TX blues, it wouldn't make sense to spend 6 months mastering a 3 finger plucking technique to prep for the gig instead of practicing the set list with your existing 2 finger or even 1 finger technique. That's an ROI evaluation - not a "good" or "bad" technique or habit label - where ending up with _fewer_ "tools in the toolbox" will lead to a _better_ outcome at the gig.
To take another example, there are similar arguments out there about the fretless bass and whether it makes you a "better player" or encourages "better technique". I spent the last 20 years on the FL exclusively and I still often ask myself this very question: Truth is the ROI on the work I've done is a mixed bag. I originally went to the FL because I couldn't make a fretted bass sound good. But it turns out that I can't make the FL sound good either. I suck about equally bad on both; it was too late in the game when I figured that out, so I've just stuck with the FL regardless because it's now what I'm used to.
One possible benefit is that the FL is much less forgiving than the fretted bass when you don't know the notes. On the fretted bass, you can kind of flail around making guesses and it'll forgive you if you flub just enough to fret the note and pluck it at the same time. On the FL, the same level of mistake sounds like a dying cow. So I'd say it's made me more attentive to being a "note-based player" (in the sense of Jeff Berlin) and making sure I've practiced what I intend to play more thoroughly than I might have otherwise on the fretted bass.
Truth is, that's kind of all I can think of as far as the bennies (for me) of 20 years on the FL. The ROI on the FL is questionable unless a hypothetical gig might require what the FL offers over the fretted bass. That's apart from fact that I really enjoy the challenge. Yes's "Tempus Fugit" is a real task to play on my tony franklin vs playing it on a 4003 like I used to, and for some strange reason, I get a charge out of working on it on an unlined fingerboard. I guess that's a benefit too, but on a gig, I'm much more likely to drag a fretted bass to the club if that song is on the set list.
Again my position is that the gig drives the tools you use and the sound and whether something is a good or a bad habit. Not the other way around. We learn the techniques that enable us to play what we want to play the best we can play it. If it's a question of improving the way you do that, than certainly you can say a better way is "a good habit" over a "bad habit". But if it doesn't further how good you'll be at the gig (or increase your enjoyment of the music you prefer), than it's hard to apply those labels to what you do now vs another way of doing the same thing....
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Bass playing is not an Olympic event.
If it were, Garry Willis’s three finger technique might be the Fosbury Flop of bass playing and all us old two-finger players might be accused, rightfully, of playing with bad outdated technique.
But last I checked, making music isn’t a footrace, high-jump or any other competition. So, again, there are no bad techniques. But there are always better ways to do things that are worth studying and learning.
If it were, Garry Willis’s three finger technique might be the Fosbury Flop of bass playing and all us old two-finger players might be accused, rightfully, of playing with bad outdated technique.
But last I checked, making music isn’t a footrace, high-jump or any other competition. So, again, there are no bad techniques. But there are always better ways to do things that are worth studying and learning.
Sorry, but this is just a silly statement. There are posts all the time about people causing themselves injuries with their bad technique. Any technique that causes an injury is bad. Any technique that limits your ability to play the way you want is bad too. I've seen a lot of bass players over the years struggle to play simple lines because they never learned to play properly. It's just painful to watch.
I disagree completely. If it causes pain, it's bad technique, pure and simple. If it hinders you in what you're trying to do and there are things you can do to keep yourself from being hindered, then while the previous technique may not have been actually bad, it very well might have been. A lot of people try to justify bad techniques with the old feel-good saying, "If it sounds good, it is good." But what I'm getting from the OP is that it wasn't sounding good and it was causing him problems. So if we have to accept "If it sounds good, it is good," then we also have to accept "If it sounds bad, it is bad."
OK, so the OP was saying that he felt hindered by his technique. So if we go strictly by ROI evaluation, then spending the time on refining his technique and making it better is well worth it.
Thank you...next!
There's also the "if it feels natural" then it's good school. I've posted before, when I plucked with my thumb that felt natural, then using my index finger felt natural, then using alternating index/middle finger felt natural, then using a pick felt natural. My playing was exponentially improved when I started using alternating fingers.
The same principle applies to weird wrist angles, elbow angles, wearing the bass just above your shoes. Just because it feels natural to you doesn't mean it's good.
I read your story about learning the Carol Kaye picking technique because of pain caused by the way you were playing (as I recall). I'm sure the technique you used prior to that felt very natural.
Can't agree more. Maybe some people don't care or are too lazy to work on their technique or only want to play basic songs but that doesn't justify the statement that there is no bad technique.
