Double Bass Is this bass a real deal?

[Melik]

Hey guys! I've been offered a great deal on a "baroque" bass. The seller claims it to be over 100 years old and as I've examined the pic's, it seems it may be so! What do you think?

 

[Sam Sherry]

I dunno, it's hard to say whether its a deal until we know how much s/he is paying you to take it.

 

[Steve Swan]

It sure looks like some of real deal little bass with a recent refurbishing. How does it sound? What is the string length?

 

[powerbass]

I'm no luthier but the neck looks a little off to me. How is the neck joined to the body - it doesn't look like it attaches into the bass body via a mortise or neck block.

 

[NicholasF]

I'm no luthier but the neck looks a little off to me. How is the neck joined to the body - it doesn't look like it attaches into the bass body via a mortise or neck block.

Was going to say the same thing. Also can you get some more info on it? You and the seller should meet a luthier before purchase to get the lowdown on this bass. Id hate to see it be a fake(some sort of BSO), but if it sounds good and feels good, and your getting a legit deal its worth it.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Going by with just the information I have learned on TB, search for a "church bass".


As for the age, could be from 1 to 100+ years, unfinished schisel/plane marks aren't quite the indication of the age.

As much as I love BSO's, huge +1 for professional assistance if the price is more than $100.

Regards
Sam

 

[MartinBorgen]

Baroque was more than a hundred years ago. And that bass looks WEIRD. Just because it looks weird doesen't make it baroque or a century old. Basses have been looking good since the start four hundred years ago.

But just because it looks weird doesen't make it a fake or bad bass.

 

[Steve Swan]

The kinds of distortion of the top and back plates that we see in the proile shot are usually found only on very old, lightly built basses. The indication of a possible integrated neck, blockless wonder style, is what looks like and angled joint at the top of the heel, also seen in the profile shot. It has the look of a very lightly built old bass, a big eggshell with a handle on top.

 

[MostroDB]

Melik, very interesting, thanks for sharing these pics.
But I'm with Martin & others on this. First & foremost it looks weird, with non-standard proportions that may not be desirable. It could be very old, but from these pics I'm not quite convinced of that. It does not give me the impression of being a masterfully-built instrument though, but it might of course still sound & play well. Instead, the shape of the lower left-hand side (top pic), as well as the scroll, rather gives me the impression of somebodies first pass at making a double bass. But of course I might be totally wrong.

If they ask any significant money, get it checked-out - or gamble as you like.

BTW: "Baroque" should mean 17th to 18th century, and that is very old for a bass, certainly if you plan on using it. I think I see metal tuning pegs (nice tuners actually!), and old basses often have wooden pegs (but not always), for low tension gut strings. Wear on the worm gears is an indication of age.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

It does not give me the impression of being a masterfully-built instrument though, but it might of course still sound & play well. Instead, the shape of the lower left-hand side (top pic), as well as the scroll, rather gives me the impression of somebodies first pass at making a double bass. But of course I might be totally wrong.

If they ask any significant money, get it checked-out - or gamble as you like.

I think I see metal tuning pegs (nice tuners actually!), and old basses often have wooden pegs (but not always), for low tension gut strings. Wear on the worm gears is an indication of age.

Exactly, it looks more like folk art or an amateur's hack job, although the neck and fingerboard look professionally done. If it is old, the tuners could have been changed out at some point, who knows if the scroll is even original to the bass?

 

[drurb]

I agree with what others have said. It may, in fact, be old but that, in and of itself, does not make it a desirable instrument.

 

[MostroDB]

Seeing Steve's message: yes probably lightly built, and one of the proportions that seems odd is the steel strings with the high breakover angle. That combination may not be desirable.

 

[powerbass]

Where the neck meets the scroll looks really fragile to me and not well proportioned. The mottled finish on the back looks too intentional or antiqued.

 

[notabene]

How does it sound? Bowed, does it hold your interest?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The mottled finish on the back looks too intentional or antiqued.

Or just amateur.

 

[MostlyBass]

Exactly, it looks more like folk art or an amateur's hack job, although the neck and fingerboard look professionally done. If it is old, the tuners could have been changed out at some point, who knows if the scroll is even original to the bass?

That's what I was thinking... A project or assignment from an apprentice in years gone by. It stands to reason that some poor instruments would survive just as quality ones have.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

It stands to reason that some poor instruments would survive just as quality ones have.

Which may mean it sounds good. Why else go to the expense of a new neck/FB? Some of those Swanson basses that are crudely made are supposed to sound great.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Exactly, it looks more like folk art or an amateur's hack job, although the neck and fingerboard look professionally done.

That's what I was thinking...folk art with a recent, modern neck graft. Does anyone else see the neck heel as part old, part new?

Vintage Instruments of Philadelphia has a cello/bass viol/????? they describe as "Tyrolean, probably" and circa 1790 for all of $2500 US. It's similar in some respects to the OP's find, and about equally crude.

 

[NicholasF]

Which may mean it sounds good. Why else go to the expense of a new neck/FB? Some of those Swanson basses that are crudely made are supposed to sound great.

I love Swansons, i feel my Swanaon GAS coming back

 

[T-Bird]

Moi.

Huomasin perskeles just että onkin kenties kotomaan tekosia tuo pikkubasso.

Bassoja en tiedä juurikaan tehdyn, mutta ainakin pohjanmaalla on edellisen vuosisadan vaihteessa ja ennen toista maailmansotaa vaikuttanut useampia viulunrakentajia joiden työnjälki on aikalailla yhtä kursailematonta kuin tuossa bassossa.

Tuotokset ovat semi-haluttuja, lähinnä kulttuuriarvon takia koristeiksi, soittopeleiksi niistä ei juuri ole. "Mustalaisviuluja" läinnä siis.
On mullekin tarjottu, en ole ensimmäistäkään ostanut vaikka melkein kaikkea muuta hamstraankin .

Eipä rintama-puhdetyökään aivan poissuljettu ole, mutta silloin virityskoneisto on uudempi muutos, alkuperäinen on varmaankin ollut sellotapein, sattuneesta syystä .

Otelauta on varmasti vaihdettu, siitä ei ole epäilystäkään jos basso on muutamaa vuosikymmentä vanhempi. Vaikuttaa eebeniltä noin kuvien perusteella, eikä moisen palan tai valmiin otelaudan hankkiminen ole Suomesta onnistunut ennen 80-lukua. Ei ainakaan sellaiseen hintaan että ko. instrumenttiin olisi päätynyt.

Kirkkobassohan tuo ei voi olla kuten ensin ehdotin, Suomessa ei tietääkseni moista säestysinstrumenttia ole tunnettu. Urkuharmoonilla vedeltiin jos ei oikeisiin urkuihin ollut varaa.

Jos nykyinen omistaja/myyjä ei bassoa ole puolta vuosisataa omistanut, tai ei varmasti voi todistaa ikää (jonka perusteella varmaankin hilaa hintaa ylös) esim. vanhoin valokuvin, veikkaisin kuvien perusteella joko 70-80 luvun harjoitustyöksi, tai vanhaan selloon myöhemmin tehdyksi basso-modaukseksi.

Mikään ylläoleva ei toki tarkoita site etteikö sello/basso voisi soida kivasti, ja tuohan selviää vain kokeilemalla. Metallikielet ovat kuitenkin täysin väärät, ja jos basso on vanha, pärähtää paskaksi konserttivirityksessä alta aikayksikön.

Jenkkilässä noita aiemmin mainitsemiani kirkkobassoja liikkuu ilmeisesti jonkinverran, joten hinta on sen mukainen, mutta jos ketjun basso on todellakin todistettavasti vanha Suomessa tehty instrumentti on hinnan/arvon määritteleminn lähes mahdotonta. Sisustusesineenäkin arvo voi olla huomattava jos oikean ostajan saa oikein innostumaan.
Arvokas joka tapauksessa.

Jos taas kyse on Venäjältä tai Baltiasta alunperin tulleesa soittimesta, hinta on jotain ihan muuta. Käsittääkseni siellä suunnalla moisia soittimia on tehty todella paljon vuosisatojen saatossa.

Mikä on muuten skaala/mensuuri, näyttää kuvissa todella pieneltä bassoksi?

Terveisin
Samuli