• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is this Kramer anything interesting?

#21
deff said:
I had one. Never encountered that. As a materials analyst it sounds incredibly unlikely
Click to expand...
It's my recollection; may differ from yours. I gigged it a lot and everything got pretty cold over three hours in the back of the truck, so the temperature differences were fairly severe after bringing it inside for a show. I had to open the case and let it warm up, but even then the neck was still very cold until I had played it for a bit.

If you're just playing it at home or keeping it in a temperature controlled situation, like home to car, you're not going to encounter this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4stringsjack, Gunga Din and deff
#22
Can't bring myself to agree with the peeps here saying these basses "don't sound good", though I'd consider the tones to be an acquired taste. At first it confused me to see the "muddy" description as well, but I'm much less familiar with these models with humbuckers (DMZ 4001 is the most ideal aluminum Kramer tone in my head).

Idk for sure, but if this particular model is capable of sounding anything similar to the 4001, then I'd say the bass might not be for you if don't care for punchy/grindy tone with tons of sustain. Also to add to the typical QC issues (heavy/neck dive/issues with tuning/temp), I've heard the necks can suffer from dead spots.

This one actually had me gassing hardcore just recently, IMHO such beautifully killer tone;
 
  • Like
Reactions: mb94952, deff and Phud
#24
LBS-bass said:
Can't tell you much about it other than I had its big brother and IMO they are interesting from a novelty standpoint only.

They do not sound good (IMO).
Mine (650B) probably weighed 14 pounds

However, they are slightly collectible because they are fairly rare and the aluminum neck adds collector interest. I can't advise you on current selling prices but with the model number you or your friend should be able to research that.
Click to expand...

micguy said:
My opinions varies with yours - Lumies (nickname for the aluminum necked Kramers) were generally excellent sounding instruments. You also will never find a more solid neck. They sustain for days - again, the solid neck does this for you.

Yes, they are generally heavy - mine were 11 and 12 pounds. And yes, they neck dive - something that didn't bother me in my 20's, but now.....
Click to expand...

LBS-bass said:
Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The sustain was about the only thing incredible about it, IMO, but sustain was certainly there. The sounds I was able to get were pretty muddy, but I was also quite young and inexperienced at the time, so possibly today's gear would work better with those pickups than what I had back then!
Click to expand...

GretschWretch said:
I have read that the aluminum neck is very temperature sensitive, so much so that changes in venue temperature can throw the tuning out.
Click to expand...

LBS-bass said:
This is true. I always had to retune after a song or two due to the neck warming up under my fingers.
Click to expand...
I had the baby of the family, a 350B, about ten years ago. Yes, it was quite heavy, and the tuning instability due to temperature changes is absolutely true. Mine was quite bright sounding, too much so, actually. But with a bit of bass boost from the amp it sounded very good, though.

Kramer 350B-1200_0729.jpg


BTW, where's the original case?
HSC-800_0983.jpg


HSC-800_0985.jpg


HSC-800_0989.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobyoung53, mb94952, Thorsoundcore and 1 other person
#27
GIBrat51 said:
Looks like a really nice Kramer 450B. I have a '78 lefty - one of my favorite basses. However...
- That one is missing the wooden trim rings around the pickups. That's not a big thing; they're quite fragile, and it's not unusual for them to be gone. Mine still has them - but, I bought it from the original owner.
- The bridge is a replacement, but it looks like a nice one. The original has holes in the back of the base plate for the ball ends to hook into. It looks like a thru-body bridge - until you look closer. It works quite well, but it's nothing special...
- The price? IMO, it's... a little high, for one that's missing the trim rings and original bridge. But, if there are no other "problems", and you just have to have it? Try and talk him down - of course - but if that doesn't work? $1200 isn't too unreasonable.
But, I gotta warn you;
- A 450B is not a light bass. Mine weighs 10.1 lbs.
- Aluminum necked Kramers are the Neck Divers From Hell. Take your hand off that cold aluminum neck, and the headstock will head for the floor - like a JU-87 Stuka on an attack run. With a grippy strap, mine will try very, very hard to pull my shirt over my head. Doesn't take very long, either. But...
- Those custom wound Kramer pickups are ridiculously high output, and sound amazing. And the bass sustains like crazy. Obnoxiously long sustain...
I really like mine; strung with Optima 4099RL Chromes, the tone (IMO) is to die for. But, I don't play it for more than a song or two at a time. At my age, holding that neck up is... a strain...:whistle:
Click to expand...

“Take your hand off that cold aluminum neck, and the headstock will head for the floor - like a JU-87 Stuka on an attack run.”

Got a laugh out of this line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Owl
#28
LBS-bass said:
26291644[/URL], member: 317378"]This is true. I always had to retune after a song or two due to the neck warming up under my fingers.
Click to expand...

Aluminum has a higher thermal coefficient of expansion than wood. But it’s the difference between how much the neck expands and how much the strings do that matters. As it turns out, steel (what the core of all bass strings are made of) is in between aluminum and wood, meaning an aluminum neck goes sharp as it warms up, and a wood neck goes flat. There isn’t that much difference in how much they detune - an aluminum neck works just fine if it rides in your car on the way to the gig.

No matter what your neck is made of, don’t put it in the trunk if it’s really hot or cold out, and you won’t have problems. I had a pair of Lumies for over 30 years, thermal “instability” is not an issue if you treat your bass reasonably.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ajkula66, mikewalker and Phud
#29
Thorsoundcore said:
Can't bring myself to agree with the peeps here saying these basses "don't sound good", though I'd consider the tones to be an acquired taste. At first it confused me to see the "muddy" description as well, but I'm much less familiar with these models with humbuckers (DMZ 4001 is the most ideal aluminum Kramer tone in my head).

Idk for sure, but if this particular model is capable of sounding anything similar to the 4001, then I'd say the bass might not be for you if don't care for punchy/grindy tone with tons of sustain. Also to add to the typical QC issues (heavy/neck dive/issues with tuning/temp), I've heard the necks can suffer from dead spots.

This one actually had me gassing hardcore just recently, IMHO such beautifully killer tone;
Click to expand...


That one sounds pretty awesome, like a less chunky P bass.
 
#31
Oops; missed the replacement tuners. But, other than being black, they do look like the original Schallers. The older Kramers liked Schaller hardware; I have a couple with Schaller 3D-4 roller bridges - that say "Kramer" on them... The tuners that fit these are usually not available from US parts suppliers. Most of the available M4 90/180 tuners have the little screw tab parallel to the key; these have the tab at right angles. Schaller still makes them, but they have to be ordered. I needed a set a couple of years ago (not for my 450B, though); Allparts ordered them, no problem. As for the pickups? Depending on the year and model, Kramer used several different ones. Some - like mine - had custom-wound humbuckers. Others had Mighty Mites under those "Kramer" covers. The higher-end DMZ models had DiMarzio pickups - and most of those were active, too. I also have one with a Schaller "Twin-J" pickup. TBH, it's hard to be cut-and-dried about these older Kramers. None of mine, for instance, are an exact match with the description of it in their literature. I really think those guys came to work every morning, and after their first cup of coffee? They just... winged it, and built whatever they felt like making, out of whatever was handy. But, that's OK with me. There's no way I'm getting rid of any of mine...:cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: EddiePlaysBass and mikewalker
#33
I special-ordered a fretless Kramer DMZ5000 when I was in high school. Best sounding bass I ever owned.

In addition to being heavy, the DMZ5000 was also of that generation of basses when it looked sexy to have a tiny little body and long skinny neck, which added up to massive neck dive. The bass was painful to play for a full duration gig. I ended up selling it, because I just never took it out.

The tuning instability issue doesn't make sense. The thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum is about 24 parts per million, per degree C. The tuning of my Kramer was rock solid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deff, mikewalker and Phud
#36
Lesfunk said:
Is this Kramer anything interesting?
I guy I know just bought this at auction and trying to sell it to me, or to anyone really.

I know what it is, but is it something that would be considered desirable to anyone?
Click to expand...
Well, I didn't see one person in the thread jump out and say they'd snatch that up for $1200 in heartbeat,....if that's any indication. And it seemed there were quite a few folks that own, have owned and like them.
If you play it, love it and have to have it, then it's worth what your friend wants and you both win.
If you're looking to buy it and turn a profit like your friend is attempting, I don't see anyone paying $1200 for it. So, you'd be stuck with it or have to sell it for a loss. Unless you want it for yourself, I wouldn't mess with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mb94952

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back