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Jaco impro

" I met him in 1979-80 and hung out with him off and on until he passed away. He would come sit in with me on my gigs in New York (he'd turn the amp all the way up and play "Purple Haze" by Jimi Hendrix!!) Once we played his composition "Continuum" as a duet.

Jaco and I didn't go over a lot of stuff. He showed me a diminished pattern that he was working on. He asked me if I knew about "cutting" the notes once. At the time I didn't know what he was talking about, but now I know he was telling me I should articulate each note harder when playing with my fingers - hard enough so that each note popped a little. Not pop like when you're thumbing but pop like Rocco's notes used to pop. I remember evaluating myself once and not liking the weak articulation and then realizing that that was what crazy Jaco was talking about (at the time he was pretty out there!)

Once he said, "You think you're bad 'cause you can improvise!!" I came to find out that a lot of his stuff wasn't improvised. When I was a kid I thought it was and was banging my brains (and my fingers) trying to figure how to improvise such perfectly constructed and flawlessly executed solos.
It turns out that even Jaco couldn't improvise those perfect solos - he used to compose the solos then perform them. I was dissapointed in him for a while. Then, when I began to look at him as a composer, I was floored all over again - because as compositions, his solos are still breathtaking (not to mention difficult to perform).

I think Jaco definitely influenced contemporary jazz bass. These days you can hear so many bassists who play with that singing fretless bass tone that Jaco popularized.
He also, along with Stanley Clarke, challenged bass players to examine the extreme possibilities of the bass guitar. I think the expectations for a contemporary jazz bass guitarist are high primarily because of the standards that Jaco and Stanley set.

Listening to Jaco as a youngster, I was encouraged to approach the fretless bass from a vocal perspective. I read that he tried to emulate Frank Sinatra, his favorite singer, with his bass. My favorite singer was Stevie Wonder, so I began to try to emulate him with my fretless. Developing a vocal approach to melodies Iike this is really important for instruments that don't rely on the breath. You hear so many bassists and guitarists playing "run on sentences" because they never have to stop for air. Playing from a more vocal perspective forces you to leave space and gives your playing more structure. Listening to Jaco encouraged me to be expressive on the bass guitar.

In learning Jaco's solos, I was also forced to learn the harmonies that supported his solos (since the harmonies were the foundation for his melodies). The same with Stanley Clarke, Paul Chambers, and John Coltrane. When I learned their solos, I had to learn the supporting harmonies. Eventually, I found myself with a strong harmonic vocabulary - a nice palette to write music from.

And finally, because Jaco's sound was so distinctive, I was forced to abandon his style because I realized there was only so far I could progress sounding like someone else. So I concentrated on developing my own sound from the age of 19 on.
I think I succeeded in finding my own sound, but I think it's obvious that Jaco is a big influence when you hear me play, at least sometimes."


Marcus Miller.

;)
 
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December 2002,

Jaco's first album
I was around 15 years old and a drummer friend of mine told me I had to check this record out. It was Jaco's first album. The first thing I heard was "Donna Lee". I have to admit, I didn't quite get it. It just sounded like some cat playing whatever notes he felt like. I was just learning about jazz and hadn't progressed in my own development to where I could even begin to comprehend what Jaco was doing. But this guy was obviously good so I got the record for myself and began to really listen to it.

It stayed on my turntable for around two years.

I slowly began to appreciate what Jaco was doing. I was studying music pretty intensely then and it seemed like each step I took in my development allowed me to appreciate that Jaco album more. I'll never forget when, just for kicks, I decided to walk the changes to "Donna Lee" on my bass while Jaco's version was playing. This was probably a year into listening to Jaco's album and I had finally learned "Donna Lee" at school. I was still assuming that, once Jaco stated Charlie Parker's melody, he pretty much was playing any ole' thing that he wanted and that it had nothing to do with the changes. Well I'm walking the changes under Jaco's melody and continue the changes under Jaco's 'crazy solo' and of course realize that it's not crazy at all! I realize that he's playing the changes -- and not just playing them. He was creating harmonies and lines that were so amazing it was sick! My appreciation of him grew so much that afternoon.

It took me a minute to appreciate his tone because I was a Larry Graham, Stanley Clarke freak and Jaco's tone was a good deal darker than those guys'. I was a young kid and looking for those bright plucks and pops. Jaco's sound was more about warmth and wood. But, like I said, the more I learned, the more I came to love Jaco's sound. A couple of times I had to check the album notes to see if he played upright bass too because, when he wanted to, Jaco could make his bass guitar sound like an upright.

I got into him more and more. Although when I first heard Jaco, I was a thump and popper, I began to move away from that. I wanted to grow and develop a depth to my playing like Jaco. I really wanted to know not just HOW he played what he played but WHY. This led me into studying jazz, harmony, and composition. It was pretty intimidating. I would be sitting there listening to Jaco's solo on "Havona" from the "Heavy Weather" album and I would say to myself, "How am I ever going to improvise over chord changes this perfectly??" I mean, the tone, the phrasing, the ideas...all perfect. But it drove me. And it made me grow. Eventually, I began to reincorporate my funking, thumping and popping back into my playing, realizing that it was a big part of who I was. But I really think studying Jaco as intensely as I did gave my playing a depth that I never would have had otherwise.

Heavy Weather

I love the "Jaco" album because that was my introduction to him. I also think it is the one album that gives you a complete picture of him. It sounds to me like that album contains Jaco's dreams from a child all the way up to when he recorded it in his twenties. I love "Heavy Weather" also. The combination of Jaco along with Wayne Shorter and Joe Zawinul is unbelievable. The sound of "Heavy Weather" is so sweet. The reverb on Jaco's bass, the sound of Zawinul's keyboards and Wayne's beautiful, snaking tone on sax all together - !

Jaco's composing was as unique as his playing. I think I like "Portrait of Tracy" the best. Once you get over being blown away by the fact that it's all performed on a bass, you listen to the music and that blows you away again. I'm also really into "Punk Jazz". People seem to sleep on that one. Listen to Jaco's intro, it's really sick. And his tone is a little more stringy than usual. Then listen to the harmonies!!! It's bananas.

Michal Urbaniak called me once when I was around 19 told me that Jaco and Zawinul had a fall out and that he had recommended me to replace Jaco in Weather Report. Although I was flattered by Michal's recommendation, there was no way I was ready to jump into Weather Report. My solution was simple. I just didn't answer the phone! It all worked out because Jaco and Zawinul made up and they invited me to the Weather Report show in NY. I got to meet everybody. Jaco was like, "So you're the kid! They told me there was this young black kid who could play like me!" I was like, "This dude is pretty wild."

The next time I ran into Jaco was in LA. I was at the Sunset Marquis Hotel on tour with Roberta Flack. My phone rings and it's Jaco. He said, "Hey Marcus, it's Jaco. I'm in room 219, come down and get your lesson!" At this point, I was 21 years old and was feeling like I was a pretty good player in my own right. I thought to myself, "Man, I don't need no lesson from Jaco!" .....then I got my butt down to room 219. We had a great time that day. Jaco played for me. Then he had me play for him. He showed me a lick that I still use as my warm up today, twenty years later. He was pretty competitive guy but it was cool because, without saying it, he let me know that I was cool with him.

Later on, Jaco would come sit in with my group when I did gigs in NY. One time we jammed all night and played "Continuum" together.

One night he said to me, "Man, you think you're good 'cause you can improvise on chord changes!" I said, "Man, I was just trying to play on chord changes like you!" Then he said, "Do you know about 'cutting' the string?" I wasn't exactly sure then what he meant then. But when I hear tapes of myself then, now I know exactly what he was talking about. My finger attack was soft and my notes weren't articulated clearly. I've gotten much better with that over the years.

The last time I saw him was at the West 4th street basketball courts. This was towards the end of his life. We walked over to his apartment and talked for awhile. It was very different then. He actually said to me all the things that before he would just hint at. He told me how much he admired my musicianship and that meant a lot to me.

It was really sad when he passed. I wrote Mr. Pastorius for him and played it for Miles. Miles liked it and we began recording it. He asked me what the title was. I wasn't sure how Miles felt about Jaco at the time. We didn't discuss him much. I told Miles, "I named it Mr. Pastorius. I can come up with another title if you're not cool with that." Miles said, "No, I think that's really nice to name this for Jaco." I felt great about that because now I could honestly feel like the tune came from me and from Miles too. Miles' playing was fantastic on this piece. It's funny because over the years that I played with Miles, he was never to keen on playing standard, straight-ahead 4/4 time. I guess he didn't want to play in the old style. When we did Mr. Pastorius, although it was obviously a tune that called for 4/4 time, I avoided playing 4/4. It was just Miles and myself in the studio at the time. He played the melody then began to solo. I was hinting at 4/4 on the bass but not really doing it, not wanted to turn Miles off. Then, in the middle of playing, he held up 4 fingers to me, meaning "Play 4/4 you dumb motherf#@ker!" I was thrilled and jumped into the walking bass style. Miles played chorus after chorus after chorus. It was beautiful. He finished and went home. I called Al Foster on the phone and said, "Man, get your drums and get over here. Wait till you hear what Miles played!" Al came over and laid the drums on the tune. He couldn't believe how well Miles played.

Mr. Pastorius is one of my favorite Miles performances from when I was with him and I really think that he laid a fantastic gift on Jaco with that piece!

Most musicians that I know absolutely appreciate the contribution Jaco made to music. I feel like every year, his memory gets stronger. It's up to us to make sure folks don't forget.

If you want to turn a young person on to Jaco, I think you have to do it to them like he did it to me. Play it for them when they're young, then keep playing it as they get older. Every time they hear it, they'll appreciate it more and on a deeper level until, one day, they won't be able to live without it!

Peace,
Marcus
 
Thanks for the insight about some of your experiences with Jaco.
Very interesting.
You guys that knew him, and had a chance to talk with him about his musical ideas and concepts, and play with him are very fortunate. Great memories for sure. But also, I imagine, very sad, remembering the struggle he had with his problems.
I think it's very important to tell the stories, good and bad.
 
^ those were the quotes I mentioned, and they do read pretty definitively.

But, go listen to the Bireli Lagrene-Jaco Pastorius "Live in Italy" recording. Jaco is doing some very strong blowing all over that set.
 
I myself don't see any reason to question Jaco's ability to improvise. Of course he could. Did he work up some of his solos?... some sections, of course, but it's not like he is the only one who does/did that. I hear many players repeating themes, and riffs/licks. More so than not.
But to say he couldn't improvise is untrue. In listening to the many hours of live bootleg recordings, and the studio recordings that we are most familiar with. There is very little in the way of Jaco playing solos that are exactly as played in another recording. Sure he is using his themes, and riffs, and patterns, etc. that are his trademark. But I have never heard him play a solo ( completely worked up or not.) which could be compared, and found to be identical to another solo. There is always lots of improvisation going on in his playing. He is always stretching the original themes.
I think a lot of the idea that he always played worked up stuff, and couldn't improvise over changes, or otherwise, is really unfair.
If you went and saw Charlie Parker play for 2 weeks every night. I am sure you would hear him play a lot of worked up stuff as well.
I think the people who say that Jaco couldn't improvise haven't heard enough of his playing, or have only heard some of his repetoire, or lack the ear to distinguish when he was improvising.
 
Check this out, Rick Suchow, a New York bassist, created a mashup of Jaco's Donna Lee solo over the changes of the tune via the Jamey Aebersold playalong. Dig how he makes the changes:
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html
I can't recommend The Jaco Pastorius Bass Method by Ray Peterson enough. Ray gets it! It's here:
http://www.amazon.com/Jaco-Pastorius-Bass-Method-CD/dp/0634020315
I would recommend going to Link Removed and checking out the recording of Jaco and Pat Metheny playing All the Things You Are and songs that would become Bright Size Life. It will answer some questions.
IMHO, from Wooten to Pastorius to Clarke there is a discouraging tendency among some to slag and criticize before seeking to understand what's going on musically.
 
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I will give my take on Jaco's improv.

I have heard all recordings available of Jaco live (besides studio work), I would say that 80% all the time his solos sound very similar in all the concerts. So I have the feeling that he put down some solos together and did the same over and over.

Which is improv, but maybe more like painting white over white.

I have not heard a solo that sounds different than his donna lee lick mixed with his amerika+portrait of tracy+jimi hendrix+bach+beatles.

It is a good mix, but he did exactly the same over and over on all his solos.
 
I
If you went and saw Charlie Parker play for 2 weeks every night. I am sure you would hear him play a lot of worked up stuff as well.
+1 If you get a copy of the Charlie Parker Omnibook (highly recommended-play it on Electric Bass, it's good for ya!;)) you'll see that Parker has his pet "licks" that show up again and again.
Chick Corea wrote a great column in Contemporary Keyboard years ago called "The Myth of Improvisation" where he addressed this very issue.
Hal Galper cites this in this interview from Jazz Improv:
" JI: When did the intent, when did the value...?

HG: Not everybody's had that intent. That isn't a universal intent musically. Never has been. There are some people who are absolutely dedicated to never repeating. There are some musicians who had different concepts about how the music should go, and combinations of the two. I made a study of this, because Chick Corea wrote an article many years ago - a two part article called "The Myth of Improvisation" - where he was making a case for presentation of creativity and improvisation, and I reacted very violently to it, and told him so. I thought it was anti-creative and anti-improvisational, etc., etc., it was just about show-biz. But I made a study of that, because I wanted to be sure of the ground I was standing on. Much to my surprise, I found a lot of evidence for predetermined music, highly arranged music, repetitive...

In the early days, when a trumpet player in a big band had an eight-bar solo, they worked those solos out till they got it down, and they took the same solo every time. You hear Count Basie's band and some of those classic charts, "Sweets' (Harry "Sweets' Edison) would play the same solo! John Coltrane would start his solos off - in a live performance - with the opening licks of his recorded solos, just to bring the ear of the listener in.

So, I still don't agree 100% with Chick's article but I think balancing the creative act with "presentation concerns" is not necessarily a bad thing. You are trying to communicate with people, it has to be handled in such a way that it doesn't intrude on the level of the art, just on the music.

JI: The same question in another way: how do you teach your students not to repeat themselves?

HG: Oh, that's a life-long goal. It's not as cut-and-dried as you present it, because you don't have everything available to you every night. McCoy [Tyner} was quoted as saying, "What's important is that every time you play, you give 100%. Some nights you got 99% available, and some nights you got 65" available, but what's important is that you give 100% (of what's available)." So you're not always ripping off the greatest stuff, you're subject to circumstances: playing conditions, the state of the body, all kinds of other stuff.

'Bird' repeated himself constantly - but the masters of it were the Lennie Tristano school. I played with a lot of people from that school, who worked with him, and none of them were repeaters. I played duo with Lee Konitz for nine months straight, recorded with him, and he never repeated a lick. Chet never repeated - he wasn't from that (Tristano's) school - 'Cannonball' never repeated, unless he was playing the blues, and even then he never played the same thing once. (Laughter.) Even if you play something that you've played before, you always have the chance to try to interpret it differently, shade it differently, edit it, twist it around. That's one of the ways you fight repetition: actually play kind of destructive - screw up your "habit" licks and see where it will take you.

JI: I'm thinking about a comment Meyer Shapiro made. He was an art critic. He had in interesting comment: "Style is that which remains constant over time." So, if you're talking about a context of developing one's style. Where you also have the goal of not repeating yourself, then developing one's style really has more to do with developing things like touch and timbre..."
Here's the link to the entire interview. I will pay attention to Phil Wood's pianist....
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
I will give my take on Jaco's improv.

I have heard all recordings available of Jaco live (besides studio work), I would say that 80% all the time his solos sound very similar in all the concerts. So I have the feeling that he put down some solos together and did the same over and over.

Which is improv, but maybe more like painting white over white.

I have not heard a solo that sounds different than his donna lee lick mixed with his amerika+portrait of tracy+jimi hendrix+bach+beatles.

It is a good mix, but he did exactly the same over and over on all his solos.


I have to disagree strongly. Please list up the
live recordings of Jaco you've heard, because
I'd really like to know. It's true that he
re-quoted himself a lot in the later years
( when he was seriously ill), but when he
was lucid and inspired his improvising was
fresh and world-class. Especially before his
solo debut-album.
 
Yup I have the Omni book, that's why I mentioned the Bird.... if you saw him play live regularily, you would hear lots of repitition with the solos. And I imagine it is like that with most all performers.

Also +1 on this... "John Coltrane would start his solos off - in a live performance - with the opening licks of his recorded solos, just to bring the ear of the listener in."...

I also like this...
..."Even if you play something that you've played before, you always have the chance to try to interpret it differently, shade it differently, edit it, twist it around. That's one of the ways you fight repetition: actually play kind of destructive - screw up your "habit" licks and see where it will take you."

So it's not like there is anything wrong with repetition, it is how you work with it so it isn't repetitive, but a framework to improvise from, or cues, or whatever.
I think it is impossible to be completely without repitition.

I also think Jaco kills on Donna Lee with Miles and Bird. Jaco's solo is really fantastic. When you hear the piano behind what he is playing, you really hear all the color of the harmony, Even the harmonics. He was playing his ass off. IMHO
 
Check this out, Rick Suchow, a New York bassist, created a mashup of Jaco's Donna Lee solo over the changes of the tune via the Jamey Aebersold playalong. Dig how he makes the changes:
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-47.html
I can't recommend The Jaco Pastorius Bass Method by Ray Peterson enough. Ray gets it! It's here:
http://www.amazon.com/Jaco-Pastorius-Bass-Method-CD/dp/0634020315
I would recommend going to Link Removed and checking out the recording of Jaco and Pat Metheny playing All the Things You Are and songs that would become Bright Size Life. It will answer some questions.
IMHO, from Wooten to Pastorius to Clarke there is a discouraging tendency among some to slag and criticize before seeking to understand what's going on musically.


Wow - where do you find this stuff Roy??? I'm envious... lol. :eek:

This is a good thread. Lots to learn - not only about Jaco, but music history in general.
 
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Michael Brecker was an admitted lick/riff player but could that cat turn those lines around to not sound like it.
I'm sure most everyone has heard this off of Rick Sushow's web page, but if not this is Jaco, Bird and Miles all doing Donna Lee some 30-years apart. Scroll down the page to the Donna Lee Jaco, Bird & Miles MP3
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-group-94.html

Ahhh, somehow I missed this before. Thanks for posting it!
 
Criticizing a deceased icon with a well documented extensive body of work that lifted our art form in many ways seems kind of lame. Those who wish to do so would be better to put up or shut up and stop wasting our time. I mean, if you are such a gift to the music world, prove it by getting your work out there.

As to repeating licks during improvisation, isn't that in itself a personal decision and stylistic choice on the part of the artist? I mean especially quoting specific lines depending on what is going on in the club seems pretty cool to me, but would appear to violate some kind of sacrosanct rule never to repeat a line. I mean, if that's your thing, OK; but, that seems like a rather personal artistic choice to me.

What seems to me to be more important is whether the player is bringing something to the performance or just going through the motions. I've heard players knock down rote stuff, and been very pleased by that, and also seen top improvisers just going through the motions, which is less than satisfying. Arguing about what is and is not improvisation based on some kind of academic elitist attitude seems pretty far removed from the spirit of the art form, IMO.

GL to all.
 
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I'm in the "Jaco was a crap improviser" camp. He wrote all his solos for recordings, and live he just danced around, playing a few crappy notes in between, playing like he was on shrooms and LSD at the same time, and got cheered for being the best bassist of all time. I seriously don't get the cult around Jaco. How can people call him a jazz bassist if he can't improvise? Just silly.
This most ridiculous comment I've ever heard about one of greatest bassists to ever live . It sounds like you might be on something too . I just heard you say Jaco was crappy bassist ? You should banned for stupidity. Would love to hear you play so I can walk away laughing.