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Jacos death

#41
FWIW, I have had personal experience with someone who suffers from bipolar disorder - and at least from the standpoint of this non-patient & non-medical professional (moi), I can back up everything that's already been stated by more experienced & knowledgeable people on this topic - Tash & Compressed in particular...

The young lady in question has mood swings that are way beyond the realm of normal behavior: when she is "up", she babbles excitedly like a hyperactive child on a sugar high. And when she is "down", she sinks into the depths of despair. She is driven to be the center of attention (and is a brilliantly talented performer, BTW). And yet she suffers from anxiety attacks & stage fright that is absolutely paralyzing - I mean I have watched her go into hyperventilation...

I keep telling myself, "Just be patient with her. It isn't really 'her' speaking." Yet despite my best efforts, there are many times when I simply can't be around her. At all...

Is it a real illness? You betcha. Every bit as real as AIDS or cancer or emphysema. And just like those other diseases, its roots are physiological - not mental. We refer to it as a mental illness because the symptoms manifest themselves as mental dysfunction. But it can't be treated just by psychotherapy or counseling or any other form of rational talking it out and trying to understand it. It's rooted in a chemical imbalance in the brain. So it requires an organic solution...

MM
 
#42
I completely agree with the people here... You can bet this is a serious, and all too real, illness. I personally deal with depression on a regular basis, as my second half has been diagnosed as severely depressed last year - and it was a condition she had been dealing with for years, without proper help. Having learned a lot about the condition, I found out just how many misconceptions are around these illnesses, where people do not regard them as "true" diseases - and that is a danger, believe me.

Also, on another note, this topic made me recall a part of the interview with Jonas Hellborg in the january/febuary issue of Bass Guitar magazine, in which Hellbord is asked one question about Jaco. Since it gives an additional point of view as to the end of Jaco's life, I thought I would share it, for those who haven't read it...

"
Bass Guitar : Did you see eye to eye with Jaco Pastorius in the "punk jazz" context ?

Jonas Hellborg: Absolutely. Most people think Jaco was just "gone" towards the end of his life, but we met a few times and had some very deep conversations. He'd eventually go into his "Crazy Jaco" mode, but I think that was for show. And he was pissed at the music industry. His Word of Mouth [Warner Bros.] is a masterpiece, but nobody took it seriously - the record company hated it, and everybody thought he was finished. Now, of course, he's recognized as one of the greatest of that generation on any instrument.
"
 
#43
I posted once on this thread already, but I wanted to weigh in one more time. My wife and I are currently dealing with a bipolar daughter, who for many years, has had a great deal going for her, but now has nothing to show for it. We aren't turning our backs on her so much as she frightens us when she's around us. Not only is she confrontational, she will bring strangers into our house when we're not there, has stolen from us after we've given her enough to fill her needs, is morbidly promiscuous, a congenital liar, and suicidal. At this point, she's not taking meds, and is out of control. She stays with whoever she sleeps with. We're sick about it. We've spoke to a therapist who told us that billions of dollars of therapy have been wasted trying to treat these individuals, and that one day, in some cases, a light comes on, and they submit to treatment and cure--if they live that long.
We pray for her recovery.
 
#44
oldfclefer said:
I posted once on this thread already, but I wanted to weigh in one more time. My wife and I are currently dealing with a bipolar daughter, who for many years, has had a great deal going for her, but now has nothing to show for it. We aren't turning our backs on her so much as she frightens us when she's around us. Not only is she confrontational, she will bring strangers into our house when we're not there, has stolen from us after we've given her enough to fill her needs, is morbidly promiscuous, a congenital liar, and suicidal. At this point, she's not taking meds, and is out of control. She stays with whoever she sleeps with. We're sick about it. We've spoke to a therapist who told us that billions of dollars of therapy have been wasted trying to treat these individuals, and that one day, in some cases, a light comes on, and they submit to treatment and cure--if they live that long.
We pray for her recovery.
Click to expand...

I hear you friend. You have all my support also. I hope for the best for you, your wife, and of course your daughter.
 
#46
oldfclefer said:
We've spoke to a therapist who told us that billions of dollars of therapy have been wasted trying to treat these individuals, and that one day, in some cases, a light comes on, and they submit to treatment and cure--if they live that long.
We pray for her recovery.
Click to expand...

And this is, sadly, all you can do. My ex tried to fix things for me, my family tried to fix things for me, none of it did any good until I decided that my life was f*cked up and that I wanted to make it better. Until she does this there is nothing you can do. You are better off pushing her out of your life now, as hard as that is for a parent to do, so that you still have the emotional reserves left to support and help her if/when she does come around.

I wish I could point to something that made me reach that point, but it just sort of happened. One day I realized that I'd gone from having a great wife, career and band to working in a bookstore for minimum wage, dating drug addicts and being a pariah in the local music scene and realized that this sh*t was my fault and that only I could fix it.

That's when I started taking my treatment seriously.
 
#47
Couple things people don't realize. 2 aspects to this problem.

1) The brain is a complicated biochemical machine. There are chemical/hormonal/medical problems at the root of this stuff, and your brain can not function properly when those things go haywire any more than your heart can continue beating when the bloodstream is loaded with potassium (ala lethal injection).

2) the brain is your only instrument for measuring reality. Once it starts to go off the tracks, its hard to tell its going on because they're not getting an accurate picture of reality. Think of it like this... if all you have to go on is the gas gauge, then the gas gauge starts acting up, its hard to tell you're running out of gas until its too late and the car stalls.

Just because YOU can tell someone's acting crazy doesn't mean THEY can tell.

And as for modern health care being any better, typically they drug people to compliance until the insurance runs out then reduce the dosage until they're responsive again, and voila, they're "cured". When the medical system becomes a business, its goal is to make money, not cure people.

Randy
 
#48
Check out this report from PBS' Frontline entitled "The New Asylums".

Yes, this is another poor solution -- throw mentally ill people in jail. But, really whether it is mental illness, drug addiction, you name it, until a person decides that they have had enough and are willing to get help, all the best meds, caring friends and family are just not going to solve the problem. Its so against our grain as caring human beings to turn our back on someone we care about, but sometimes it is the best solution and, more often than not, after not feeding into the problem, not supporting the person financially or otherwise, leads to that realization the person needs to get some help and help themselves get their life together.
 
#49
oldfclefer said:
I posted once on this thread already, but I wanted to weigh in one more time. My wife and I are currently dealing with a bipolar daughter, who for many years, has had a great deal going for her, but now has nothing to show for it. We aren't turning our backs on her so much as she frightens us when she's around us. Not only is she confrontational, she will bring strangers into our house when we're not there, has stolen from us after we've given her enough to fill her needs, is morbidly promiscuous, a congenital liar, and suicidal. At this point, she's not taking meds, and is out of control. She stays with whoever she sleeps with. We're sick about it. We've spoke to a therapist who told us that billions of dollars of therapy have been wasted trying to treat these individuals, and that one day, in some cases, a light comes on, and they submit to treatment and cure--if they live that long.
We pray for her recovery.
Click to expand...
Best of luck mate, hang in there and I wish you all the best for a speedy recovery for your daughter and you and your wife. I don't know what the laws are in the US, but here, a threat of suicide usually provokes Psychiatric detention with a strict governing of medications and behaviour. I really pray for your daughter, that she gets the treatment best for her.
 
#50
I'm going to make one more statement here, and then I'll say no more. This is NOT, I repeat NOT, a political statement.
My daughter is in her mid-thirties and, because of her age, will be the sole person who determines her fate. She has forsaken her children, her career, and everything else that should mean something to her. She did submit to treatment starting while she was in her late twenties. She's an above average looking person, but one of the side effects of the pharms (Wellbutrin and something that starts with Z) was grotesque outbreaks of acne. She stopped taking anything after awhile. Now....
I'm glad to hear that the government and people of Australia have reserved some compassion for their fellow citizens who through no fault of their own, fall victim to a condition like bipolar disorder.
Jaco Pastorius was blessed with an inimitable talent, which, even on this small scale, has drawn attention to the tragic and criminal neglect that we in the U.S. have accepted as status quo. Without making any politically motivated statements, I know that the beautiful little girl we raised does not deserve the fate that Jaco suffered. Given the current political climate in the U.S., the medical field (including care givers, pharmecutical providers, and insurance providers) are guilty of the crime of collusion in the thousands of deaths to people in this condition. I believe that runaway medical costs are a greater threat to us than any gang of Arabs. Yet, the rich and powerful medical lobby continues its self serving crusade to guard their wealth. Their lobbyists in Washington have prevented the one entity with enough power, the federal government, from regulating the industry so that all of our citizens can recieve equitable medical treatment. Instead, our greed and self-absorbtion have permitted us to forsake those who need us most.
So, because my wife and I don't have the means to pay for her treament, we must stand aside and let fate run its course with one of our beloved children. We pray.
 
#51
FunkKing said:
How is it the 'easy way out'? I know somebody suffering with a bi-polar disorder and its extremely upsetting.
Click to expand...

Look, I love Jaco as much as you all do okay, however John Pastorius III became a slave to the Jaco persona. Sure drugs and alcohol only fueled the fire, but the reality is Jaco never wanted to live past 30 anyway. He always thought he'd die young and that all his heroes (Christ, Hendrix) died in their early 30's too.

Of course he had serious mental illnesses and I didn't mean to call bi-polar disorder a "scapegoat and easy way out". I apologize sincerely but he was in fact trapped in the Jaco persona.
 

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