I think we have all heard some version of this philosophy.
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Janek Gwizdala: Buy Once; Cry Once
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I think we have all heard some version of this philosophy.
It's exactly what I thought when I bought my first "expensive" instrument -- which would make classical musicians laugh out loud!
Salud!
My ex-mother in law has a saying in Spanish: "Al ruin y al pobre, la cuenta doble" = Everything end up costing double to the stingy or poor.
My ex-mother in law has a saying in Spanish: "Al ruin y al pobre, la cuenta doble" = Everything end up costing double to the stingy or poor.
If you come from meager beginnings, and afford and adapt to whatever you can afford later on, any crying will be towards appreciation, for what you have.
I always promoted "Listen till your Satisfied"
It may cost more than you expected and also may cost less
There always will be something perceived better and cost more seemingly unending
But Human nature gets involved
When working at home audio store customer came in and said he wants a 5K system
I listened to his wants and expectations set up system for him to listen to
He said that sounds fantastic that's what I wanted
I told him good news this system only cost 3K
He looked me dead in the eyes and said I told you I wanted to spend 5K
So I sold him him a 7K system
It may cost more than you expected and also may cost less
There always will be something perceived better and cost more seemingly unending
But Human nature gets involved
When working at home audio store customer came in and said he wants a 5K system
I listened to his wants and expectations set up system for him to listen to
He said that sounds fantastic that's what I wanted
I told him good news this system only cost 3K
He looked me dead in the eyes and said I told you I wanted to spend 5K
So I sold him him a 7K system
Janek is a philosophical beacon for sure... 
At least it makes you think about that old saying: "Silence is gold..."
Or as Syd Barrett expressed it: "Magnesium, proverbs and sobs..."
At least it makes you think about that old saying: "Silence is gold..."
Or as Syd Barrett expressed it: "Magnesium, proverbs and sobs..."
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I think it's generally true, but less so for guitars and basses these days. Paying twice as much for an instrument does not guarentee you'll get something twice as good, there are a ton of great playing instruments available now in the under $500 range, more than good enough for the average player, and no need to Cry. It's really not that difficult to build a good bass, basically 1950's tech with CNC applied, which makes decent QC endlessly repeatable. The real benefits in tone and playability get more and more incremental as you climb the price range, to the point they don't really exist in any practical way. Nobody "needs" an Alembic, for instance, those gorgeous hardwoods and impeccable finish won't make you a better player, hours of woodshedding will. but if you can afford a playable work of Art, good on ya. As an amateur Luthier, I have definitely found this cliche' applies to tools though, a lesson I seem to have to keep learning over and over.
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When I was a teenager I dated a flutist (a person who plays flute). I bought a Warwick Streamer LX - my first high end bass. It cost £1200. She was shocked.
A year later she bought her first 'proper' flute. It was considerably more than £1200 - then she understood, and I felt better about the value of my instrument too!!
(Unrelated but - she was great but I was far too immature to be in a relationship. What a dummy)
Buy Once is one of many good concepts.
Diminishing Returns is another.
A Penny saved....
Each of these has to be taken within its own particular context.
(and that context can be different for each one of us.)
Diminishing Returns is another.
A Penny saved....
Each of these has to be taken within its own particular context.
(and that context can be different for each one of us.)
This.
For many people, the barrier to entry is cost/availability. If every wannabe violinist had to wait til they could afford a Guarnieri before beginning lessons, there'd be no more violinists.
But if you start on an inexpensive instrument (as long as it's decent quality), you get to find out whether you are worthy of better instruments long before you plunk down three months of Mom's salary on one. So no, I do not agree with the whole buy the best you can afford idea. That's a salesman's wet dream, not a mode of daily operation for the masses.
My first bass was a Rickenbacker 4001 - bought it as a college student. Could have bought a lawsuit Ibanez - Ibanez was making copies of Rics at the time, and they definitely weren't the "real thing", or all that close - when I picked one up and played, it, it was definitely the cheap imitation. This was the era where Chris Squire was the coolest bassist on the planet (at least for guys my age), and a lot of the "cool kids" were buying Rics. As it turned out, long term it wasn't my dream bass, but it was a great first bass, and now....I don't have to wonder about Rics. A few years ago, I saw a Ric in a music store, and my nostalgia kicked in. I picked it up, plugged it in, and.... a couple minutes later..."yeah, that's why sold mine"
I did get a good price for it, and was on to the next bass, A Kramer Stagemaster, which was about 50% more expensive, and fit me better (for the time). Eventually, the weight and neck dive caught up with me as I got older, but I had that one as my main bass for about 30 years.
Good basses are worth it, and in the context of "real" musical instruments (anything played in an orchestra), they're cheap. Even Rics.
Last year, I sold off a lot of relatively cheap pedals - I was searching for the best overdrive, etc, and wouldn't pony up the $300 or so for a nice one. turns out, after selling off all those "cheap" overdrives, I was able to get a few really nice ones - the expensive ones I had been avoiding buying because they were too expensive. I would have saved quite a bit of money if I had bought the good ones first.
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I can tell you as much that the most expensive piece of absolute crap I was ever stupid enough to buy happened to be a vintage 70's Rickenbacker bass.
Very quickly ended up absolutely hating that bass, and went back to my trusty entry level Japan made Aria Pro II, which in my opinion was an indefinitely better instrument.
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People aren't wired to 'buy once, cry once', then be and stay satisfied. Once you've dried your eyes, six months from now, you'll get the itch to cry all over again.
It is indeed a fickle, pointless, and endless process to buy better gear to be a better player instead of putting that same energy into study, practice, and instruction. But you can't sell that at Guitar Center or Sweetwater.
It is indeed a fickle, pointless, and endless process to buy better gear to be a better player instead of putting that same energy into study, practice, and instruction. But you can't sell that at Guitar Center or Sweetwater.
Some people can adapt to whatever tools they have, some people have a goal in mind and have to work towards it, some people have to try a zillion things to figure out what they wanted.
There's a benefit to living in an area with a lot of music stores. You can rule out a lot of bad ideas and avoid a lot of regrettable purchases by spending a few days trying everything on the wall. Getting to test Pedullas, Alembics, Rick Turner basses, vintage Fenders and so on was what helped me realize that all I wanted and maybe needed was one good-enough fretless and one good-enough fretted. Better would be better, maybe, but more than one fretted and one fretless would simply not get played.
I can think of various incremental improvements I'd like to have in my fretless, all of them would have tangible effects on the sound and none of them are particularly expensive, but in aggregate they'd cost over twice what I bought the instrument for. This wouldn't make me a better player, but it would bring the instrument (which already plays about as well as I could want one to play) closer to the sound I have in my mind.
There's a benefit to living in an area with a lot of music stores. You can rule out a lot of bad ideas and avoid a lot of regrettable purchases by spending a few days trying everything on the wall. Getting to test Pedullas, Alembics, Rick Turner basses, vintage Fenders and so on was what helped me realize that all I wanted and maybe needed was one good-enough fretless and one good-enough fretted. Better would be better, maybe, but more than one fretted and one fretless would simply not get played.
The law of diminishing returns is real -- spending more only improves things slightly, but that also means that when you want improvements, you have to spend for them.
I can think of various incremental improvements I'd like to have in my fretless, all of them would have tangible effects on the sound and none of them are particularly expensive, but in aggregate they'd cost over twice what I bought the instrument for. This wouldn't make me a better player, but it would bring the instrument (which already plays about as well as I could want one to play) closer to the sound I have in my mind.
Buy something that you really enjoy playing, if you can afford it. You'll be more inspired and enjoy it for the rest of your life. The price keep going up and it'll end up being a bargain 10 years down the road
I think context really matters for a lot of this gear stuff. Janek has a point that if something speaks to you, you are in a position to afford it, and play/produce at a higher level (which requires obsession and perfection in your tone/toolbox) then it's worth the price point. If anyone has followed AMP on YouTube, I also agree with him that some of this gear stuff is a distraction for a majority of players…obsessing about gear/tone/ whatever instead of just going out and dedicating time to playing your instrument.
I mean, how much was Paul's hofner bass and (from what I understand) basic gear that he played for years and made incredible music on? Sure the studio had the top of the line stuff for the time, but you don't much.
I'm a huge Ian fan and have significantly watched more SBL videos because of him. I also know he collects and appreciates bougie, boutique bass gear that I will never have access to. As a high-level professional studio musician, he requires the tools, I don't. I know in the promo video he makes it seem like "every bass player needs one", which misses the mark IMO and hence the backlash.
In terms of DI, I picked up a @Sushi Box FX Finally V2 awhile ago and love it. It is affordable, has tube-y goodness. I feel it's very high quality, made with a lot of love and care, and has great customer service and support. Cool gear is out there at many different price points and sometimes constraints breeds creativity.
I mean, how much was Paul's hofner bass and (from what I understand) basic gear that he played for years and made incredible music on? Sure the studio had the top of the line stuff for the time, but you don't much.
I'm a huge Ian fan and have significantly watched more SBL videos because of him. I also know he collects and appreciates bougie, boutique bass gear that I will never have access to. As a high-level professional studio musician, he requires the tools, I don't. I know in the promo video he makes it seem like "every bass player needs one", which misses the mark IMO and hence the backlash.
In terms of DI, I picked up a @Sushi Box FX Finally V2 awhile ago and love it. It is affordable, has tube-y goodness. I feel it's very high quality, made with a lot of love and care, and has great customer service and support. Cool gear is out there at many different price points and sometimes constraints breeds creativity.
I like Janek, but this is a little "rich" coming from a dude who's given $10K+ basses on the reg....
Back in my day all music stores
Sold 'Study, Practice and Instruction' and did very well
A great philosophy if you are well off and can afford the higher tier gear, but for the rest of us, you get the best you can at the best deal you can. I have owned over 30 different amps in my lifetime, not one of them was new. I've been lucky enough to get good enough deals that I make a profit if and when I sell and end up with pretty nice gear. I have not cried over any of my used purchases, unlike the TBer who posted about his $5600 custom built bass that ended up being a Warmoth parts bass. That would make me cry.
